#Remote Mic for Hi-8 Cam
20 messages in this thread
Stan:
>[2] way-too-fast zoom
The zoom I can't do much about<
Have you tried a light touch? Sony has a tendency to build touch- sensitive
autozooms–the harder you push it, the faster the zoom (and the inverse). I
find it a pain in the *gluteous maximus*, personally, but it seems to be
popular since they keep buildin' 'em that way…
As for the mikes, I usually use a plain-old wired cardioid from Radio Shack
mounted to my accessory shoe–the 240-degree pickup pattern means that you
won't get sound from directly behind (which is where the camcorder is), but
you'll get sound from just about everyplace else. Even better, you bring along
a cable and you can detach the mike for handheld miking…
Regarding wireless mikes, if you're going to get one–spend the extra bucks for
a VHF wireless as opposed to an FM wireless (less interference).
Hope this helps,
Tim Liebe
Thanks Tim.
Yes, this helps a lot. I know nothing about mikes, and have
no idea of what to look for in a good wired or wireless mike.
On the zoom: yeah, the sony tr101 camera has two zoom speeds, depending
on touch: too fast and way too fast. The next camera I get will
have an infinitely variable zoom, with enough play in the touch
or some other form of control that lets you go nice and slowly.
The Sony tr101 zoom is just plain useless, unless you want to
make movies that look like bad home movies, IMHO.
Time to go to Radio Shack and do some mike hunting research.
Thanks so much for the data. Any particular models and/or features
you have opinions on ???
stan
Hi Stan –
PMFJI
In my opinion Radio Shack mikes are crap. They are poorly designed (for
example their lavelier has a big batter in the middle of the cord which is
heavy enough to wreck the cord). Every time I have bought a RS mike, I've
regretted it.
If you are looking for relatively low priced mikes Shures and Electro voices
are a good bet. If you can afford better, look at AudioTechnica. If you
really want good (but it's expensive) Sennheiser's are dynamite.
In wireless, I have had good experience with the Azden VHF line.
Oh. Forgot one. Markertek Video Supply sells a very inexpensive linbe of lavs
(one is only $30), which I have had suprisingly good luck with. You can reach
them (and get their catalog if you don't already get it) at 800-522-2025.
Bob
Bob:
>In my opinion Radio Shack mikes are crap. They are poorly designed (for
example their lavelier has a big batter in the middle of the cord which is
heavy enough to wreck the cord). Every time I have bought a RS mike, I've
regretted it.<
Really? I've generally had reasonably good luck with 'em–although I confess, I
don't usually buy anything other than their bare-bones models…
Best,
Tim Liebe
Hi Tim –
Actually, my message sounded a little snotty when you played it back to me. Oh
well.
My feeling is that in audio you pretty well get what you pay for. I prefer
balanced feeds (more than 10-15 of cable with an unbalanced feed is asking for
trouble) which pretty well limits you to professional equipment.
The only thing I can say is that my Sennheiser's and Shures (actually, my Azden
wirelesses also) have worked perfectly from day one. The 3 RS mikes I have
owned (all electret condensors) broke quickly.
The Shure dynamics (the stick mikes you frequently see on the TV news) are work
horses. It's been said that you can hammer nails with them. Although I've
never tried that. We do not hammer nails with our Sennheiser's <BG>.
Bob
Bob:
>The Shure dynamics (the stick mikes you frequently see on the TV news) are
work horses. It's been said that you can hammer nails with them. Although
I've never tried that. We do not hammer nails with our Sennheiser's <BG>.<
Er–actually, *I* did, once w/a Sennheiser…my producer had me do it to prove
a point about dynamic mikes in a training course <g>…
What you're saying about Shures and Sennheisers are very true, but I assumed
that, given the parties involved were shooting w/TR-101s, they were looking for
a decent cheap solution–which is why I said I'd gotten decent results w/RS
mikes.
That also goes for your comment about balanced lines vs. unbalanced
lines–while they're preferable, they're also more expensive and a bit clunky
w/the extra equipment for a prosumer camcorder.
Thanks for the clarification!
Tim
Forgot to ask Tim. What is Video magazine? I don't think I am familiar with
it.
Bob
Bob:
>What is Video magazine? <
It's a consumer-oriented video magazine–you can find it in most larger
newsstands. It's the consumer big brother to VIDEO PRO, which Tim Wetmore (also
on this forum) works for.
Tim Liebe
Bob –
I agree about the RS mikes, with one exception. Their PZM mike,
I believe, is the same thing as the Crown PZM mike. I tried one
once and it seemed pretty good. (As well as inexpensive – $60).
They are good for placing on forum tables, as well as under the hood
of pianos and harpsichords.
check it out – p. 84 current catalog (33-1090)
db
Hi db –
>>I agree about the RS mikes, with one exception. Their PZM mike,
I've heard that too, but have never used one. So far, thank God, I've never
had to mike more than two talents in a situation where I couldn't use the
shotgun…
What kind of sound quality have you been getting with the PZM? From what I've
read about them they tend to be pretty much of a comprimise.
reb.out (see, I can do it too <G> )
Hullo reb! <VBG>
Actually my middle initial is "w" so I guess I could put "dwb" and
pronounce it "DWEEB", but it might hit too close to those jr. high
memories. Not to mention I'd loose the Decibel quality to dB!
I borrowed a couple of them from a friend about 8 years ago to mike a
Harpsichord. He had used them on the hood (underneath) of his grand
piano with the hood jacked up.
He was the keyboard player with a major label artist, so I thought
"what the hey – he must know something?!" I tried 'em and the quality
was pretty good (as much as I can remember 8 years later <g> )
back.to.you.reb
breaker, breaker.
dB.out
<bg>
>>>I agree about the RS mikes, with one exception. Their PZM mike,
I believe, is the same thing as the Crown PZM mike.<<<<
Butting in here I know … hope you don't mind.
I've had a RS PZM for 5 years now. I use it for all sorts of sonund
jobs. I freelance as a sound mixer for live shows and studio sessions. I've
been told by one electronic tech that the RS PZM uses Crown elements that
didn't quite muster up to Crowns specs. So, you pay your money and take your
chance! Still in all, I'd buy another. BTW, the best sound I ever got out of
an upright accoutstic piano, in qymnasium, at a H.S. commencement cerrimony,
was when I taped the RS PZM to the inside top lid, then closed the lid! A
little EQ and Whalla!! Many pats on the back later, I still get the job every
year. The most unique use was taping it to a drummers chest during a studio
session!
I've used their cheepie lavs before as well without problems (although
the battery case is a hassle at times). However, not enough times to say
whether they'll hold up. But on the same token I've never heard any of their
hand held or desk mikes that were worth their price IMHO. I think they sell
some hand helds in the $60-$75 range. But when you can by a Sure SM57 for
Under $80.00…
As far as using better mics goes. Its like everything else, you get
what you pay for. I've never met a Senheizer I didn't like! <g>. Audio
Technica has some great sounding mics for reasonalble prices. As a matter of
interest, I'm anxious to try one of their 4050s (large diameter condenser).
I've heard some real good things about it and would use it in the studio for
voice overs.
To keep this thread somewhat close to the originator's question, (:>,
I use a Nady wireless transmitter and receiver with a Sony lav. Great sounding
and reliable.
Okay… I'll stop rambling now…
Thanks for the read! Martin
Martin –
Thanks for the confirmation. I wasn't 100% sure what happened when I used it
a few years back, but I DO know I DIDN'T tape it to our drummer's chest! :)))
Now THAT'S funny! I'd pay for a picture of that.
db.out
Hi Martin
Wow. More great data. Thanks to you, and everyone on this thread.
This is a very useful education for me.
Question: is the Shure SM57 the sorta entry level reasonable mike in their line
??
(( I think I'm leaning towards a wired mike for now, and will wait a bit
for a wireless one (like when I get my next (second) camera (the plan is
to pick up a high-end prosumer model every coupla years til I have enuf
for a little crew). From this thread so far, it seems that for $80-$120
I can get a reasonable wired mike. (I imagine that, for a given level of
quality, a wireless mike will cost 1.5 to 2x that).
Ya know, when people ask my opinion
on computer gear, my first question back is "Tell me how much you can
spend, and I'll tell you how to put together a maximum system for your
needs at that price point, and also at points 20% higher and 20% lower".
I find it's a useful way for them to focus their thoughts. Yeah, so, now
I can amend my question a bit : What are some excellent wired mikes
at the $80 — $100 — and $120 price points ??? From what's in this thread
so far, I think I've got some starting thoughts …. ))
(and I have some time to think … my deadline is to have a mike by the
end of April, when I take off for a trip of a lifetime to Africa for a month,
a coupla weeks of which will be spent with an anthropologist friend in
a village in the bush in Zambia, and I wanna be able to get some good
sound …. )
Thanks again….
stan
Stan,
Pardon me for jumping in but I thought I might be able to help you out.
The Sure SM-57 is Bullet Proof. It is the mike that is used for every
Presidential speech (with the optional wind screen). The reason the sound
people at the White House use it is because it is so reliable. There are other
mikes with better response but they are either more money or not as rugged. If
I was going on a once in a lifetime trip to Africa and I had about 100 bucks to
spend thats the mike I would get. The SM-58 is almost as rugged and is very
similar in response but it has a spherical shape at the end.
My only question to you is wouldn't you want a stereo mike?
Hope this helps.
Steve Biegler
HouseBoat Studios "Sailin' on AutoPilot"
Hi Steve
Honored to have you splashing around here in my <smile> pool of ignorance.
Thanks
for the lovely jump and splash.
(<grin> actually, nah, no pool, ouch, that's concrete, but more like
CyberCrashCourse
in Microphonology numero zeerow. Wheee ….)
Okay: so: the pinned head follows up: Are there stereo versions of the SM-57
and SM-58 ???? They sound like the fine kinda thang.
(i wasn't kidding or being falsely modest when i used that ignorance noun)
Thanks for all data.
stan
Hi Robert
Wow !!! A great set of data !!! Thanks so much. I'll need some time
to digest all of this, and may be back with questions, but meanwhile,
wow, thanks, this is GREAT !!!
stan
Stan:
>I know nothing about mikes, and have
no idea of what to look for in a good wired or wireless mike.<
Funny you should say that…<g> I've been writing about sound for (usually
consumer) video, off and on, for the past four years. Azden mikes are usually
reasonably good (and reasonably priced!), so it'd be hard to go too wrong with
one.
It all depends on your needs <clears throat, prepares to pontificate>–are you
looking for a good general purpose mike, and aren't *too* picky about room tone
past 6 or so feet? Then a cardioid mounted on your camcorder is the way to go.
If you are picky about room tone, try a supercardioid or a shotgun mike–but be
prepared to have people go 'way out of mike range as soon as you're not focused
on them. The ideal, obviously, is a cardioid mounted on a mike boom less than a
foot over your speakers' heads–but, well, that can limit your shots and also
requires a boom operator.
Lavalieres are also near-ideal, though you have other hassles: Do you want the
mike to be visible on their persons (okay for interviews, but a pain to hide
for dramatic videos)? What if you're doing "person in the street" interviews
("Er, Ma'am–just talk into my lapel, please…" <g>)? Can you afford to
purchase a VHF wireless mike (usually, around $150 each), or do you risk using
an FM wireless (cheaper, but vulnerable to interference from local taxi radios,
pagers, etc.)–or do you go ultracheap and buy a "wired" lavaliere (not bad,
unless you have a problem w/your talent being tethered to your camcorder <g>)?
>yeah, the sony tr101 camera has two zoom speeds, depending
on touch: too fast and way too fast.<
Really? I always thought the TR-101's slower zoom speed was fine–although I
dislike the faster speed (unless I'm in a chopsocky frame of mind <g>). I agree
w/you, BTW, that too-fast zooms make your stuff look like bad home videos–but
I guess it's a question as to what you consider "slow enough".
Best,
Tim
Hmmm.
Excellent questions.
I need some time to chew before responding with any good answers
and followup questions.
However: some initial thoughts: my performance goals in order of ranked
importance are:
[0] not hear the &*%$%^& camera mechanisms when I'm shooting
quiet stuff
[1] work reasonably well outdoors when shooting nature
[2] work reasonably well indoors in groups of people (classrooms)
[3] work reasonably well indoors when recording music (usually loud,
blues or rock n roll)
((( reasonably of course being a tad fuzzy. but: i'm not a supersoundophile,
which should let me get in at a lower level than some other folks might need.
)))
I'll be back with more; now it's back to work …
thanks again. this is just great. fine education. neat sharing.
stan
Stan:
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you–I got buried under another
deadline (or rather, rewrites for a deadline <feh>).
In response to your needs:
>[0] not hear the &*%$%^& camera mechanisms when I'm shooting
quiet stuff<
Just about any external microphone will do the job for you, especially if it's
away from the camcorder. I recommend a cardioid since you can mount that on the
accessory shoe and not have to worry about the camcorder mechanics being w/in
its pickup range.
>[1] work reasonably well outdoors when shooting nature<
That's a bit tougher. When you say "reasonably well", do you want just the
general sounds around you, or do you want to be able to zero in on specific
sounds? If the latter, then you'll need a "shotgun" mike–but the tradeoff is
that if the sound's outside the pickup range (which is pretty narrow), you've
lost it.
>[2] work reasonably well indoors in groups of people (classrooms)<
Again, that depends on how you define "reasonable". Classrooms, like any large
gatherings, are tough to mike if you want clear audio w/out a lot of "hiss"
because the further you get away from the mike, the more room tone you pick up.
OTOH, unless you want people passing around a mike when they ask questions
(like on those afternoon talk shows <g>), it's pretty unavoidable.
>[3] work reasonably well indoors when recording music (usually loud,
blues or rock n roll)<
And, of course, that's the toughest of all to record! Have you considered
asking permission to "jack in" to the mixer the band's using? No single
camcorder mike's going to give you very good sound quality.
Looking forward to hearing from you again soon,
Tim