#68020 boards
21 messages in this thread
Aside from CSA, what are the current plans of other hardware manufactures on
releasing a 68020 (or 68030 board) for the Amiga 2000? And what features.
Unless I can get a faster processor with fast memory, I just don't think
upgrading to the 2000 will be worth it.
On another note, did CBM extend the trade in offer for the 2000 again?
Lots of question, as usual.
Winston
Winston,
CBM has a '020 board in the works, 68020/68881/68851 and 2 Meg RAM and
it's almost ready for release. Latest UNOFFICIAL estimate is early next year
for production quanities. Price is also up in the air, but from information
I've been able to gather, the expected price for all the above will be in the
$2000 range.
Again…NONE of that was 'official' but I believe it to be true.
Yes…the trade-in offer was extended until at least 12-31.
Don
Thanks again, Don. $2000 for a 68020 card with 2 megs of memory? Gee, the Mac
II is becomming more reasonable in price, after all (grin).
Well, I guess it isn't too bad, since the Levco Prodigy for the Mac costs
nearly that much. Come to think of it, all the 68020 boards for the Mac that
has on-board ram, the MPU and the math co-processor cost a hefty amount. At
least, from the looks of it, a major upgrade to AmigaDos or even a new OS may
be in the offing. The 68851 means some semblance of memory protection, in all
likelihood? (you never know, though)
Winston
Winston,
I don't know what the MMU chip costs, but I seem to recall seeing a
68020/68881 package going for around $200. Add $400 for 2 Meg of RAM and at my
costs alone (retail) just the chipset and RAM is going to be in the $700-800
category. Add the rest of the stuff on the board, profit and that sort of good
stuff and $2000 seems like a "reasonable" price for the time being.
Don
Well, I was kind of wondering what marketing genius would sell a 68020 board
for $2000 when one can get a 386 machine for that price. Depending on one's
preferences, it seems to me that Commodore would sell a lot more of their
card for the price of about $1300. I'm not sure they'll be reasonable about
pricing a new "hot" product, though.
Do you find upgrading to the 2000 worthwhile? I can get a 2000 for $900 with
my 1000 & 256k expansion as a trade in (locally).
Thanks,
Winston
Winston,
Yes, for me, the move to an A2000 was very worthwhile. I use MS-DOS
machines at work and needed that capability here at home, also I have a very
small desktop to work from. With the A2000, I've now got everything my A1000
had plus true MS-DOS compatability all in one box and still have 4 slots open
for further expansion, plus the co-processor slot (where I can put the '020
board if I were so inclined) plus the dual video slot if I need to hook up a
GenLock or some such device. I'd still only have the one box on my desk.
If you need any of the above capability and/or have limited desk space,
then the move would be wise. If you don't need that, then keep your A1000
until such time as you need to add something that can't be done to the A1000.
By that time, there may indeed be a native '020 machine from Amiga.
Don
Gee, I can understand your reluctance with the 286 based AT's, but the 386 is
and improvement over that great piece of engineering (big grin). I do agree
that the 68020 is probably a better processor for MY needs, but there are
others. I hope the cost of the 68020 board is under $1500. I do need
MS-DOS capability, but not 8088 based MS-DOS machines. I want and need the
286 bridgeboard. I can buy a 10mhz AT clone with monitor for $1000. The
bridge board can't cost much more than that (or can it)?
Winston
Winston,
I have no idea at this time what the 286 bridgeboard will cost, but
hopefully the street price will be under $1000. That seems reasonable since
the street price for the 8088 bridgeboard is in the $600-700 category.
It is unfortunate that the present 8088 bridgeboard couldn't have been
a faster clocked machine, but then it is running 100% IBM PC speed, and that's
all it was intended to do…and I knew that when I bought it. I'd be curious
to know if anyone has put an accelerator board on the PC side of an A2000
and/or an NEC V20 processor and how that combination works. I do know that the
present bridgeboard works fine with expanded memory (I do have that installed)
and it does speed up applications or file access when you have software that
can take advantage of it.
Don
Well Winston, i personally would not even consider a '386 machine at any price,
and think that $2000 for an '020 board is a better deal than any Intel machine,
complete or not.
Regards, Larry.
I wonder about the wisdom of Commodore, moving into a market like the market
for 020 boards. At this chap reminds us, the price of the board is high, at
least if not more than the price of the rest of the system. I don't think
Commodore can sell a lot of them, and think they should have left the 020 board
market to the third-party people, like CSA. After all the pals-ing around CBM
did with CSA, they turned a cold shoulder to them at COMDEX, because they were
now showing their own 020 board, and didn't want CSA in the booth.
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Well, if there weren't so many programs of VALUE available on the MS-DOS
world, I would tend to agree with you. Unfortunately, I need and use a lot
of tools unavailable on the Amiga (i.e a decent LISP or Prolog implementation
that I use for grad school). On the 386 front, Lucid will be making their
Common LISP available, and Golden Common LISP and PowerLisp are already
available for the 286 machines. I am waiting for the software situation to
catch up with the Amiga hardware. I can take only so much of the video
oriented software (the Amiga's forte, I agree, but not quite mine). In any
case, does having a 68020 board preclude having the software that will take
advantage of such a beast (like extended addressing capabilities for the
LISP applications), or will it just run faster (like current 8088 applications
on the 286 and 386 machines)?
I'm always hestitant to buy new hardware when I don't have anything to use
it with. I suppose I can always write something I need, but there always
seems to be a shortage of time.
BTW, if Commodore comes out with a 68020 board under $1500, I'll prpbably
end up with a 2000.
Winston
Think very hard about why you want the 68020 board. The prices on '020 boards
will range from $800 – $2000, and you can bet the the reason the cheap boards
are cheap is because the engineers left out some goodies. Do you need the
memory management, or just the speed? Would you get better throughput with a
discount 68020 board coupled with a premium hard disk controller like ASDG's
SDP? Do you require 32-bit memory in vast quantities, or are your processes
cpu bound?
As I mentioned in my previous message, I want a nice programming environment
for writing LISP applications. A Symbolics would be nice, but the price is
out of the question. To that effect, I need a 68020 board that supports
the 68851 MMU as well as a math coprocessor (when I'm writing some math
intensive simulations – not necessarily in LISP). I want the fast memory
access that a 32 bit bus provides – I don't like the fact that to get all this
I need to pay $2000 for the "previlege." After all, one of the reasons that
Apple continues to ask a high price for the Mac II is the sheer amount of
software that has been and is being developed for the Macintosh line.
Specifically, I need programs such as Smalltalk-80 from Parc Place Systems or
Coral Common Lisp (Allegro CL) running on a 68020 board. I'm afraid that such
tools will be a long time coming to the Amiga, especially now that Commodore
has targeted the machine for home (and office) use. I was talking to one of
the owners of a Macintosh firm that develops AI tools for that machine – there
are no immediate plans for product development for the Amiga until a time they
deem there's a market for a powerful AI tool. Will such a market develop?
I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath. (probably not)
MIT Press has delayed release of Wisdom Prolog for the Amiga, for example. With
the exception of Cambridge LISP (which I don't really like), there isn't much
in the way of tools that I can use. If a 68020 board were to come in cheap,
there may at least be a chance that it's popularity will spur development
of programming tools that I described above.
Winston
Remember where the MAC was this many months after its introduction?
// Jim
Jim,
I remember how long those programs took to arrive for the Mac. But, isn't the
Amiga a two year old by now. There's lots of graphics oriented applications
out there, but I need a good LISP and Prolog. The way things are going, a lot
of the Amiga software development will center on graphics applications for
the near future. I need tools, not pictures (well, maybe I can take a few
video applications, but I need other things).
Winston
Winston,
While I agree that software you need to run is a good reason to consider when
deciding on a machine, I also think that it's a shame that one has to resort to
running braindead CPU chips to get those programs. I don't have any _need_ to
run any particular software, so I'm in the position to vote with my wallet by
not buying any Intel stuff. I can only hope that there will be enough demand to
show the vendors the right way to go, and that more and more people will vote
along with me.
Regards, Larry.
Larry,
I don't have any braind damaged micros (just an ST and an Amiga at home, and
a Mac 2 where I work [when not in school]). The fact that a lot of software
will be coming out for the 286 and 386 machines and the Mac family still
means that a lot of the tools I want will probably take a longer time to come
to the Amiga (or the ST).
Actually, a 68020 board with the 68851 mmu should be a perfect springboard for
a nice LISP or Prolog implementation. I hope someone writes one!
Winston
I know of a board called Hurricane! made by Finally Technologies up in San
Francisco , walnut greek i think it is a 2 meg 32 bit ram , 68020/68881 board
for under $2000.00 ( latest price i know ) must of all it fits INSIDE the
A1000…
Ed,
I have a 1000 – do you have more info?
Winston