#U-Matic for Animation?
15 messages in this thread
Gary,
I may have an opportunity to barter some animation services for a U-Matic
tape system (late-mid 80's vintage). A next-door company produces videos
and has recently moved to MII. They have a few 3/4" decks that they are
not using. Assuming good condition, how much would you say they'd be worth
in barter? Of what I understand regarding this format (which is not much),
this format is much supperior to Hi-8 and S-VHS, but falls short of MII and
Beta. Would you agree? Is the 3/4" format a "dead-end"?
We are a 3DS dealer and will be putting a system together a demo system
soon. Assuming a 3/4" deck, should I get an AT-Vista or is a
Targa+32 or +64 "just_as_good" for 3DS animations?
I've got a list of suggestions for 3DS …. interested in some E-Mail? <g>
Ang
Watch out for used video equipment. Here are some things to look out for:
1. Was it used for single-frame animation? How many hours are on it?
2. What model is it? Is it a composite 3/4" Umatic or a Y/C UmaticSP?
If the deck is a UmaticSP unit (like a 5850 or a 9850), it'll pass, as long
as it wasn't used for animation. (you'll need to get it serviced first)
Its value will vary depending upon model and usage hours.
– G
>> is it a 5850 or 9850?
Actually, its a 5850 (I'm not sure about the SP … but I'll find out tomm!)
It was my initial thought that the since it was a 5850 that it was "no go"
for animation use. Is the 5850 SP OK? (assuming what follows) I looked on
the Diaquest 422 brochure and didn't see any 5850's and thought is was
probably a wash (yes .. I know there is life after Diaquest). I'll go back
tommorrow and take a REAL CLOSE look at the model number. If its a regular
5950, is it not capable of frame animation?
>> was it used for animation?
No … this company produces, markets and sells a series of videos (a whole
catalog of them now). No animation has ever been done on these decks. As a
matter of fact, I'm hoping after they see what I do for them with 3DS,
they'll be a customer. I'm hoping to barter a "logo-video header" for them
(got some cool ideas that have them foaming at the mouth..<g>).
>> assuming its a 5850
What's the downside of this deck (other than it's older). Would it be a
better deck than say a Panasonic 7750? (which is what I'll get if this falls
through).
Inquiring minds want to know …… Ang
Angelo,
the 5850 is reguler Umatic, NOT SP. It is old but frame accurate although
you might need long prerolls to allow it to stabilize between edits. The
diaquest dq422 supports the 5850.
I don't know if it's better than the AG7750. Probably similar depending on
your intended market. S-VHS would probably be better for corporate and 3/4"
better for cable broadcasts. I personally would avoid the 5850, either that
or only pay $1k for it.
Martin
Martin,
>> 5850 to be avoided
Thanks for the input.
Ang
Martin:
To the contrary, Mr. Foster – the DQ-422 is a serial controller, and as
such will NOT control a PARALLEL deck like the 5850. What is needed is the
DQ-550P, which is more expensive (of course!) than the DQ-422, but does
have the added advantage of including a time code reader-generator.
Remember also, a stock 5850 does not have a time code track, but for
animation, you can always use an audio track for SMPTE.
The 5850 works OK for animation, but I would recommend the 9850SP if
possible.
Greg Pyros – Pyros Partnership, Newport Beach, CA
He's back!!!!!!!!
I stand corrected. Thanks.
Martin
Greg,
Do you have any input/impression/warnings/praises for SoftVTR? From the
spec sheet, you can do everything that the DQ422 + Action Animator can do
PLUS have a nifty-keen VTR control in Windows that "mimics" the front panel
of YOUR SPECIFIC VTR … pretty cool. I've got a message soliciting
experiences on this product … we (DTI) is concidering carrying it.
Ang
Ang:
I have personally never tried SoftVTR. I only know one person who has, and
he had a heck of a time getting it to work properly. However, almost
everyone who starts out in this crazy field has a problem the first time
they try to hook up a computer and VTR for single frame output. I'm a
DiaQuest kind of a guy myself. Started out with their hardware board when
I was a little babe in the woods, and graduated to their software version
when we got our laser disk. It works, and I don't want to fix it!!!!
Let me know how the Soft VTR works for you. We wrote our own program to
take images out to the laser disk, so it obviously doesn't take a Gary Yost
to figure it out. Just get a good sync source!!!
Greg Pyros – Pyros Partnership, Newport Beach, CA
Greg,
>> get a good sync source
That's an interesting thing … the DQ422 has the source for gen-locking …
but the software only version doesn't …. I haven't heard anyone
complaining about DQ's software only … so something seems "weard". I
talked to a fella yesterday (I'll get his name … I've forgotten it now)
who says he worked with Gary et'al with 3DS development. He's using SoftVTR
with a 7750 (422 VTR) and says it works great (actually .. he had a heck of
a time in the beginning until he changed a variable in a config file telling
the software that it was a Panasonic VTR .. "now it works great").
Something bothers me about having to but a card in the machine, plug it into
itself … etc .. when its just a serial connection. Anyways, if I'm
sticking with Tagra+32's for my customers, I can use that as the sync …
eh?
I guess its the engineer in me …. when something seem "not quite right"
(DQ422 on a new deck vs. software only) … its hard for me to just go "…
ehhh … O…K…".
I've got a few more "referals" to check out that they've given me… looking
before I leap ya'know.
Ang
Ang:
Personally, I prefer a "house sync" to using the sync source on the video
card. This way, I tie it into tape decks, laser, computer, video camera,
etc. Let me know what you decide (and why!) and how it works for you!
Greg Pyros, Pyros Partnership, Newport Beach, CA
>> like to use house sync.
Greg,
Maybe you can lend some light to the subject of the slippery "sync source"
as far as it applies to frame animation only Targa+ -> AG7750. My
confusion is being fueled by the new wave of video devices with RS232
capabilities (and the newer 422 devices like the 7750). For instance the
new laser disk (Sony) and the Hi 9860 are 232 devices which do not require a
hardware controller and therefore can do without the sync generator found on
a board like the 422. If this is so, then why is the sync source inportant
in the first place. For instance, I've talked to numerous people using
this SoftVTR (software only controller) product on AG7750's with great
results. As far as I know, they are simply hook'n up the AG7750 to the
TARGA+ and the computer without any extra sources. If this is true, when
and why is this source necessary? Is is mainly required when you are doing
"traditional video editing" and not recessarily for the specific function of
frame animation? My average customer is (and will probably continue to be)
architects, engineers who want 3DS to do walk-thru's and prototyping. They
are not "plugging" this animation system into an elaborate video production
system … what I sell'em is what they'll have (Targa+32, Sony Monitor,
AG7750, SoftVTR and 3DS and a 486 clone). Given that config, what will they
be missing without an "outside source"?
Ang
They won't be missing much. I have found that a dedicated sync is USUALLY
of higher quality (a good sync deck will run $2,000 or so, more than the
price of the Targa!)
Hook them up to some electrical test equipment and you can see the
difference, however, if your clients aren't using a time base corrected
system, the sync difference will be so little as to not be noticeable.
A dedicated sync box will provide composite sync, black burst, and usually
a few other goodies (mine even has an audio test generator – absolutely
required for frame-by-frame animation!!!! <big grin!>
Seriously, though, if you want to do live video overlays or sync in a video
camera and tape decks, it sure is nice. But, it won't be necessary for
your basic SVHS deck for fly-bys. Again, in this business, you get what
youse pays for!!!!
Greg
I'd have to agree with Martin about the 5850… it's not an SP unit, and
it's extremely marginal (it's probably gotten a lot of use since it's so
old). If they can prove that it HASN'T gotten much use, it would be worth
$800-$1000, but that's about it. If you're really serious about video,
you'd be better off taking out a small loan and buying a Sony LVR3000 laser
disc recorder (about $15K) or one of the new PVW Betacam units. Video is
one case where you REALLY get what you pay for. It also depends upon what
you need to do. For corporate/industrial videos a Panasonic AG7750 or Sony
9650 (Hi8 deck) would work fine, as long as you've got a clean sync signal
and tweak everything up optimally.
– G
>> EVO 9650 & AG7750
It's interesting …. I just went through writting two proposals for
customers … one for the 9650 and one the the 7750. What a difference in
price you can get when you don't need a hardware controller for the 9650 or
an extra TCG. The resulting system price was about $2.5k different in price
(with about the same animation quality recording possible). Ofcourse, you
can't drive other VTR's with the DiaQuest PC Platform and also I under stand
that the 9650 has a 15sec limit on insert edits. This lost functionality
and future "intergratability" (there's a good Haigism) can be lost on
someone who is just starting and may want to do mainly walk-thru's.
>> life beyond Diaquest … address to ALL
Are there any other controllers out there that people have been happy with.
Do they have 3DS modules so that you can control the VTR from within 3DS?
Can they do rotoscoping? If they are software only, can the support non-232
decks? Who out there's using'em?
Ang