#How to age a picture
12 messages in this thread
I'm trying to recreate an archaeological site. This site is a Dolmen, dated
from 5.000 BC, which is composed of a narrow passage leading to a burial
chamber. In the chamber there are a number of very simple and symbolic black
and red paintings. I've worked this paintings in PhotoStyler. I used a Scanner
to get the drawings, and then I filled the area with a stone pattern. The
problem I'm having, is that in 3D Studio, when rendering, the paintings look
like they were made yesterday, not thousands years ago. I tried to used a bump
texture, but I only got the stones to look more real, not the paints. How can I
get this paintings to look older?
Thanks in advance
Best regards
Alvaro Nobrega
>>black and red paintings<<
>>How can I get this paintings to look older?<<
I haven't seen them, so I'm guessing…in your image editing program try:
Soften the edges of the paintings a bit, so they don't look like crisp computer
cut vynil signs. Make the black dark gray as if it faded some. Make the red a
little more brown – not a highly saturated red, not a bright high value red –
remember, it was painted ages ago with rust or ochre or some _natural_ pigment
that has since faded. Make the colours not quite flat. If you've got a cloud or
fractal texture or some other blotchy image, make it gray and overlay it on the
images very faintly – just enough to make the paintings look unevenly aged.
Maybe stained from chemicals seeping out of the rock – maybe a bit of rock
shows through in some place.
My recollection of the paintings found in passage graves is such that I would
caution against using any sort of bump map fo rthe paintings themselves. The
paintings are thin and laid on the rock. The paintings should respond only to
the bump map of the rock, since they follow the rock. I don't think you want
thick goopy paint like some crazed neolithic impressionist.
Good luck – gruhn
Peter,
Thanks for your message. You describe well the problems I'm facing to get this
recreation to look more real. I'll try to follow your tips, but I understand
that it will require some painting skills, that I haven't got yet. I guess I'll
have to work hard.
I didn't quite understand what you said about Cloud or fractal texture. I have
Vistapro, so I think I can generate a cloud mesh.
One other thing I didn't understand was when you said that the paintings should
respond only to the bump map of the rock. The paintings are in a number off 8,
each one in a big stone (don't know the name in English). The texture for this
stones is a rock pattern, with the paintings. The Bump map affects the whole
image the same way.
Thanks again
Alvaro
>>I didn't quite understand what you said about Cloud or fractal texture. I
have Vistapro, so I think I can generate a cloud mesh.<<
Not quite was I was meaning. Some program has a texture generator that makes
cloud like fractal plasmas or some such. They look kinda like clouds. Or fog.
Or mist. Basicly just random blotchy fuzzy stuff. All 2d.
One of these overlaid or merged or modulating your picture might add that
uneven tone and shade.
You can get something that might do just by painting around in gray scale with
a big airbrush tool. Then maybe soften.
>>One other thing I didn't understand was when you said that the paintings
should respond only to the bump map of the rock. […] The texture for this
stones is a rock pattern, with the paintings. The Bump map affects the whole
image the same way.<<
Ah, you have the rock face and the painting on the same bitmap? OK…
I'll try again. Longer. Imagine that there are no paintings on the rock. The
whole rock has some rocky texture. Rough and bumpy. You use this as a bump map,
and it looks good. Now some ancient Celt comes along and paints on top of the
rock.
My understanding is that this type of painting would be a thin colouring on top
of the rock. The same rough and bumpy rock surface would show through where the
painting is. Run your hands over the painting and you will feel rock.
If you use a bump map for your rock that looks only like rock, then the
painting will look right. If you use a bump map that includes the painting, the
painting will look like it is standing out from the rock. You'd be able to feel
the painting with your fingers. I think this would be wrong.
Simply – use the rock mesh. use a rock like bump map. use a second map that
looks rock like and also has your painting.
Or there may be some stuff you can do with labels – Anyone?
– gruhn
(did that help?)
Peter,
Some problems with my modem, prevent me from reading and replaying sooner to
your message. You did helped a lot. I know understand that I should use to
textures for getting a more realistic effect. I'm working on it, but I think I
still have a long way to go. I've just received my first 3D Studio, and my
Portuguese is far better than my English.
Thanks
Best regards,
Alvaro
>>I'm working on it, but I think I still have a long way to go. I've just
received my first 3D Studio, and my Portuguese is far better than my English.<<
Enjoy the work. Play with this some more and get back to me to let me know how
it's going/ask questions/complain. Your English is far better than my
Portugese.
– gruhn
Dear Alvaro,
There are a few things you can do to make a texture look more "used":
1> You probably have the painting texture as Texture 1 at 100. Turn it down to
a lower percentage, somewhere from 60 to 80. Then make the Diffuse color a
medium gray. This will "desaturate" the colors in the painting.
2> Add a "dirt" bitmap for Texture 2. You can try using CEMENT.CEL at 10-15, or
make your own "dirt" and apply it. DENTS.SXP works really well too but it takes
longer to render than a bitmap.
3> If the material is shiny, use the "dirt" bitmap as a Shininess bitmap too,
at 80-100.
4> Add a varied reflection map, such as VALLEY_L.TGA at 5-15.
With this combination the material should look more used. If it still looks too
new, take down the Texture 1 setting even further, and experiment with the
brightness of the Diffuse color.
Michele
Michele,
Thank you very much for your message.
I have the painting texture set to 80, and the diffuse colour set to medium
gray. I was hopping to try the cement-cel as texture 2, but unfortunately I
have installed yesterday a new Graphics accelerator, that is not being accepted
by 3D Studio. I can only solve this problem on Monday. I'll let you know of the
results as soon as I can get the program to work again.
Thanks again
Alvaro
Alvaro
heres a couple of possibilities for exploration.
find some pictures of paint on cave walls or rough textured paint surfaces.
They could even be in different colors than you want and then hue adjusted.
Using Photoshop, Photostyler, Painter etc. use these scanned images as clone
sources for painting on your wall. Experiment with
less than 100% opacity to let the underlying texture show through.
If you have Painter the paper texture can be modified for realistic effect.
Invert paper texture is a powerful tool for emphasizing texture.
Use two textures in the 3DS materials ed. Lots of 3D artists build dirt,
scratch and smudge textures in paint or image programs to use at very low%
settings to give the main texture a real look.
Ive found that the time spent in other programs developing and tweaking maps
can be the key to losing that computer look. If you care to
look at images that result from this kind of obsessive attention to texture
maps download "shrine" or"church basement" from the Images Lib.
In these works I spent most of the time working on the maps outside 3DS. I
hqave found it very useful to run 3DS on one machine and
Photostyler or Painter on a networked machine so I can tweak and immediatly
test the map without going in ond out of 3DS.
hope this helps.
Ed
Edward,
Thanks for your message
I can't use pictures of paint in cave walls. This type off paintings is a lot
different from those you find in caves. They are painted in big sculpted rocks
(menir,esteio), and they represent the sun, the stars, the moon, the sea, etc.
There are many Dolmen, but very few have paintings. What I would like to find
is a good rock texture in which I could paint or paste the paintings.
I like the idea of using to textures, so I'll give it a try.
I'm using OS/2, so I can easily change between 3D and other programs, like
photostyler. I have a 486 DX4 100, and I can get two 286, one 386, and a friend
of mine promised me the ethernet cards and the connection cables. I don't
understand nothing about networks, and I don't know if this configuration as
enough power to stand 3D Studio. Is it?
Thanks again
Alvaro
Alvaro
I have gotten good texture results by actually scanning flat rocks and using
the results as a clone source. With some extra work you can make any texture
you scan seamlessly tilable. You have to be careful not to scratch the glass on
your scanner.
On the network, you can forget the 286's. 386s will work very slowly.
Ed
Edward
That's an excellent idea. I have already brought some stones in doors. I got a
good texture from one and I'm going to use it.
That's to bad I can use 286, or 386. I've just find out that I could get 4 286,
and 2 386 for free, along with some cables and ethernet. 🙁
Thanks
Alvaro