CompuServe Thread

#Common graphic/anim

21 messages in this thread
#23735From: Rob SalmonNov 26, 1992 11:52 AM
Guess I asked a question in the wrong place. I'll try again here. The goal is to produce an application for multiple OS's and platforms which includes animation of images 128*128 pixels in 64 gray shades. We are trying to use a common CDROM for the "data disk" and put the hardware specific programs on their own floppies. If we settle on ISO-9660 as a CDROM format standard, what is the most common graphic standard for the images? As stated above, the image is fairly small, but we could not tolerate ANY data loss to compression/decompression routines. The only possible compromise might be a reduction in gray shades. Target platforms include the usual suspects plus UNIX(Motif). Any opinions including "it can't be done" are welcome. Thanks, Rob.
#23737From: Kermit WoodallNov 26, 1992 12:01 PM
Rob, it's hard to say that any animation format is common to all platforms, but I can say that .GL (Grasp) libraries are supported to some degree on PC, Mac, ST, Amiga and Unix/Motif in shareware or public domain offerings. I've also seen players or converters for the Amiga's ANIM format on many platforms, but it doesn't seem to carry the same popularity…probably because there aren't as many "nudie" anims around in ANIM format as there are in .GL format. Kermit Woodall Nova Design, Inc.
#23748From: Rob SalmonNov 26, 1992 10:08 PM
Thanks, we're willing to use different anim engines which are platform specific if only we can share the underlying graphic stills. If we can't get a common data set, we probably can't port to various machines. In this app, 95% of the effort and development cost is the data; the platform specific operating code is easy.
#23763From: David ArtNov 27, 1992 8:21 PM
Rob, The "Interchange Plus" program from Syndesis might be something of interest to you in your project. It can read, write, and modify 3D objects in the following formats: LightWave Imagine Turbo Silver 2.0 and 3.0 Videoscape 1.0 and 2.0 Sculpt 3D/4D scene (and write Sculpt 3D/4D script) PAGErender ImageMaster ISHAPEs It also several tools that might be of interest to you. David
#23766From: SyndesisNov 27, 1992 8:59 PM
Thanks for the plug, but we don't convert between bitmap image formats, we convert between 3D formats. If we start translating bitmap formats, then Perry and Ben will sit on me, and they're some of the biggest Amiga developers around. 🙂
#23768From: David ArtNov 27, 1992 10:43 PM
John, Yes, I realize that Interchange Plus doesn't do bitmaps. I was just thinking that on such a project, they might be doing some 3D objects as well. David
#23771From: Rob SalmonNov 27, 1992 10:57 PM
Thanks, but our images are 2D, and development will be on another machine.
#23857From: Matthew J. W. RatcliffNov 30, 1992 5:50 PM
I believe the iso-9660 (high sierra) spec already uses a variant of the EA IFF85 format which is native to our beloved Amigas. It features lossless compression, multiple heirarchically embedded data types, and some other good stuff I'm sure.. ;}
#23882From: SyndesisNov 30, 1992 11:11 PM
Are you sure? I didn't think ISO-9660 had anything to do with IFF or IFF-like file formats. Are you thinking of some other kind of data file format? ISO-9660 is a file system.
#23917From: Matthew J. W. RatcliffDec 1, 1992 6:19 PM
I'm not sure, I think I read it in an Amiga mag, and you especially can know what that means… I might have said it was yourown article.. but that seems increasingly unlikely ;-] How does High Sierra diffre from ISO-9660, I thought they were synonomous. Might they have a file format spec?
#23928From: SyndesisDec 1, 1992 8:57 PM
High Sierra and ISO-9660 are indeed very similar. But they have little to do with IFF.
#23741From: Betty Clay/SYSOPNov 26, 1992 2:50 PM
Rob, I read on the CDROM forum that the High Sierra format is about 98% compatible with the ISO-9660 and that most software that could read one could read the other – and the High Sierra format is not proprietary. In fact, I think it can be found here on CIS. I don't know the price for ISO-9660, but you might want to check this out. From what I read over there, they seem to think Kodak PHOTOCD is going to sweep the market on graphic format, but it is not compatible with most of the CDROM drives currently in use. The new ones just coming out can use it. —Betty
#23747From: Rob SalmonNov 26, 1992 10:02 PM
Thanks, Betty. What we're trying to do (share objects among platforms) will probably be trivial in a few years. It sure isn't easy now, though.
#23755From: SyndesisNov 27, 1992 2:04 PM
Will all the computers have video modes that are similar in aspect ratio? That's another wrench in the works.
#23759From: Peter GreciNov 27, 1992 5:41 PM
I'd suggest using Multpile copies of the SAME image in a few different Standards.For instance the Texture City CD-ROM I have has 100 752*480 Resolution Images in Targa,TIFF,PCX and IFF24 picture types.That covers most bases their and is on a ISO-9660 CD Rom disk.Quite nice IMHO.
#23769From: Rob SalmonNov 27, 1992 10:53 PM
Thanks, great idea.
#23878From: Peter GreciNov 30, 1992 10:19 PM
You're Quite Welcome Rob.Lemme know when yer CD makes its way across the Pond,I'd purchase this Disk if it was liscenced for Video use.
#23773From: Steve Bennett/SYSOPNov 27, 1992 11:52 PM
Well… If the application is custom written (which you pretty much would need to do anyway to get an animation playable on multiple platforms using the same data…), then as long as you write it to use the same format, it really doesn't matter *what* format you use. Amiga's IFF ANIM, Grasp's GL, Autodesk's FLI formats are all effective. Or you could store all the images in a non animation format (like GIF) and assemble frames from that. In fact, that might be your best bet, since the various animation formats all have hidden assumptions about the hardware. (Amiga ANIMs assume a Planar format, nearly all Mac animation stuff assumes a chunky format, I'm not certain how IBM animation formats work… No matter what you do, you are going to be faced with conversion time problem when loading on some or all machines, to get the image in a format in memory which is playable in real time. (I don't know what sort of frame rate you want, for that matter… On some machines a high frame rate would be nearly impossible.) You may even want to design your own format which allows for fast decompression and conversion, if load speed is important. Finally, you may want to ask this over in the Graphics Support Forum as well. That's a sort of central clearing house for people doing graphics on all platforms, and it's possible that someone there knows of something which better fits your needs… –>Steve Bennett
#23801From: Rob SalmonNov 28, 1992 11:39 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. As maybe you can guess, we will optimize it for the Intel/MS world and if it runs easily anywhere else, that's all the better. We are trying not to close the door to other systems by accident early in the development process.
#23864From: Steve Bennett/SYSOPNov 30, 1992 8:25 PM
That makes perfect sense. In fact, you're to be applauded for thinking about this now, before you start. So often companies start such an undertaking and then when the data is all done, suddenly wonder if they can do a version for another system, and discover then it's a lot more work… –>Steve Bennett
#23868From: Rob SalmonNov 30, 1992 9:39 PM
>> So often companies… It's myself and two other guys, although we have a significant backer. 🙂 Nobody's quitting any day jobs yet. Rob.