#Comparisons Needed
11 messages in this thread
I'm having some problems with IK, possibly on my system. I'm not sure
yet. Several things aren't working properly. Anybody who's got R4
up and running, first of all, what frame rate are you getting out of
Fast Preview? Secondly, when working with IK and the stairs file as
per the follow option, does the little cube guy walk properly? One
thing happens on my system, and another thing happens on my dealer's
system. Next, in interactive mode, using IK woman, is it possible
for you to actually keyframe the mesh? On my dealer's system it
appears to work, on my system, the viewport just flashes after
clicking on the mesh. Once in awhile the mesh will jump to some
extremely contorted position. This happens with or without
LiquidSpeed loaded. Any help tracking down these idiosyncracies
would be greatly appreciated. I've also got a lot of other problems,
but these seem to be the easiest to reproduce for the moment.
FYI, on my system, all the demo files work correctly, and I don't
getting that intermittent mesh jumping problem that you described.
Perhaps Jonas or Brian can work with you on trying to isolate what's
going on.
<< One thing happens on my system, and another thing happens on my
dealer's system. >>
The first thing that come to mind are the default preferences that
could differ between your dealer system and yours.
Relative/Absolute/.. tolerences..etc. (?)
<< Next, in interactive mode, using IK woman, is it possible for you
to actually keyframe the mesh? >>
Yes. It's quick and is accurate in solving the current position but
does not guarentee that the positions of non-solved keyframes
respecting the joint parameters. I tend to use follow objects even to
test my joint parameters because it offers greater control. I may
have 6 dummy objects all with very similar paths (but different) and
then modify my joint parameters and test the new settings.
Interactive gives me a quick review of the solution.
<<The first thing that comes to mind are the default preferences that
could differ between your dealer system and yours.
Relative/Absolute/.. tolerences.. etc. (?)>>
I spent 2 hours on the phone this afternoon with my dealer and he
spent another good amount of time going back to Autodesk several
times this afternoon. He only has the pre-release version of the
software as yet, and was unaware of its exact operation. We went
through methodically and checked every parameter to make sure they
were identical. We did this repeatedly before he called Autodesk,
and after he called Autodesk, and before he called Autodesk again.
I've spent numerous hours this week trying to isolate why my normal
paying work wasn't working properly either. I managed to isolate it
down to some repeatable situations. One thing that does bother me is
after I instructed my dealer as to the exact process of constructing
a follow, which he was able to successfully complete on his computer,
he came back from Autodesk to tell me that they gave him the reverse
start/end kinematic chain setup than is listed in my manual on pages
82 and 83. All the parameters I'm using are the default parameters
that came with the files I have mentioned. If you would like me to
use some other parameters, please let me know.
All I want is for this blankety-blank thing to work. Is there any
possiblility that there are multiple hidden files somewhere that
could be confusing the IK IPAS? Again, the stairclimbing cube guy
when I institute the follow operation, his feet do not move until he
starts to make the turn towards and climbing the stairs. In
interactive mode, none but the absolutely most simple files are
flexible. The only one I seem to be able to get to move is the
Ujoint, which moves freely.
Anything more than that, when I click on the object, move the mouse,
the geometry just flashes. All other operations on this system have
for 2 years, and still are, operating correctly. Previous to this
66, I was operating 3D Studio on a 33 very much similar to this
system for 3 years. The only relatively new addition to the system
is a PAR which studio seems to have no problem with, 12 hours per
day, all night long, since I installed the software. The only
operation that seems to be affected by this phenomenon is the IK
module.
I've tested several of the Yost Group IPASs, which have not exhibited
any strange behavior. My dealer's system is a 33 that actually
exhibited much slower processing and video speed than my machine.
These examples listed were not the reason for my trying to track this
problem down, but are only repeatable examples. I was in the midst
of animating a Viewpoint skeleton when the knee joints began heading
in every which direction regardless of how the joint parameters or
tolerances were set. I'm at a loss and ready to go back to R3. I
wish this thing would have been written and included in the program
by Yost Group.
<< stair climbing dude.. >>
I'll return to this as soon as I'm done reading the rest of the
forum..
<< Stairs.3ds.. >>
3ds
F4
F12
IK
<Enter>
Pick Objects….
(pick the dude)
Start Frame: 0
End Frame: 380
Start Chain: R Upper_Leg
End Chain: R Foot
Follow Object…
R Foot Dum
Start Chain: L Upper_Leg
End Chain: L Foot
Follow Object…
L Foot Dum
Go into Interactive Mode, choose the left viewport, zoom out a few
clicks and play the current animation.
Start Chain: R Upper Arm
End Chain: R Hand
Follow Object…
R Hand Dum
Start Chain: L Upper Arm
End Chain: L Hand
Follow Object…
L Hand Dum
Go into Interactive Mode, choose the left viewport, zoom out a few
clicks and play the current animation.
Well Roger.. what happens on your machine when you follow the above
steps?
One more thing Roger,
<< geometry flashes..and doesn't move when in Interactive Mode..>>
In Interactive Mode for stairs.3ds, is the mesh:_____ marked with a
check mark? " " can you
see the geometry in the left viewport? " "
when you click on the toe and move your mouse right, does the leg
rise?
Jonas
<<3ds F4 F12 IK <Enter> Pick Objects…. (pick the dude)
Start Frame: 0 End Fram: 380
Start Chain: R Upper_Leg End Chain: R Foot Follow Object…
R Foot Dum Start Chain: L Upper_Leg End Chain: L Foot Follow Object
L Foot Dum
Go into Interactive Mode, choose the left viewport, zoom out a few clicks and
Play the current animation.
Start Chain: R Upper Arm End Chain: R Hand Follow Object
R Hand Dum Start Chain: L Upper Arm End Chain: L Hand Follow Object
L Hand Dum Go into Interactive Mode, choose the left viewport, zoom out
a few clicks and Play the current animation.
Well Roger.. Wwet Happens on your Machin When you follow the above steps?
Jonas[adask]>>>>
No_Not One_ leg,foot,arm or hand keys till Frame 131!
<< No_Not One_ leg,foot,arm or hand keys till Frame 131! >>
yikes!..
I'm getting confused now.. This happens on your machine and the
dealer's machines too?.. or just your machines?
What behaviour does your machine exhibit when you try my flip.zip
example found in the meshes section of the lib? Did IK solve the
dive correctly?
How would you like to proceed with this? There's alot of math goin'
on in IK but no more than the rest of 3DS so…
No, it was just my system. I finally tracked it down last night. Now
I'm at least back to where I was a week ago. I have been able to
render my regular stuff at night, though. I know one could say that
this was my fault, but in my own defense, I'd like to say I had an
awful lot of help. About a week ago, I told you I was having problems
with the relationship between the 3 dummy boxes and the ability of my
skeleton to walk.
So I took your advice and changed the position and orientation
tolerances to what seemed to be a reasonable tweak considering the
range of 0 to 9,999,999. Now I never saved anything I did to disk, so
from my 3D Studio experience, I didn't think I was getting myself in
too deep, and messing up the example files.
Boy, was I wrong. Out of frustration, I sat here watching the
interactive screen and moving my mouse, and watching nothing happen
but screen flash. When a thought occurred to me that maybe the
computer couldn't keep up with what I was asking it to do. Back to
the manual, and I was able to find a somewhat obscure statement, in
relation to its importance. "A lower value causes the orientation of
the end effector to be more accurate, but may require more time to
calculate. If you lower the tolerance value, you may need to raise
the number of maximum iterations required."
That's when it occurred to me that this thing (IK) is saving to disk,
and no matter what you do, loading animation after animation, or even
project files, it has no effect. Every file is going to be screwed
up, unless you have the forethought or are aware enough to go in and
doublecheck constantly.
Now maybe I'm spoiled from 3 generations of excellent documentation
(although I did say something to Jack about the indexing in R1).
Later editions were of the highest quality. I would like to encourage
those who did the IK documentation to perhaps redouble their efforts
and perhaps come out with an interim edition. Considering the
complexity of the topic, it seems as though a person of average
intelligence could have more than just a few problems with these
docs. Thank you for your effort.
Earlier on, you mentioned that for a walking human, you would use
paths. Are you creating your paths in 3D Studio or in Autocad? What
I'm trying to accomplish is taking a Viewpoint skeleton, having him
walk over, open the door, and get into a automobile. I've been
working a lot with paths, without much success. You also mentioned
that you wouldn't use the interactive screen to do keyframing.
Is the only way to accomplish this with this version of IK to become
a scripting guru? I'm really hoping I can work with this program
interactively. I mean all the work since the Xerox lab days has been
about trying to make the computer understand what the human's trying
to tell it. Venturing off into programming kind of ventures off into
a different mindset, don't you think?
<< it works! >>
I'm very glad that this is resolved for you. Yea!
<< doc's need some help. .>>
All of your comments are appreciated. IK is a powerful and thought
provoking tool. All of your comments will help us improve.
Thanks.
<< Earlier on, you mentioned that for a walking human, you would use
paths. Are you creating your paths in 3D Studio or in Autocad? >>
3ds only.
<< You also mentioned that you wouldn't use the interactive screen to do
keyframing. >>
This is because I'm trying to solve for specific positions based on the joint
parameters.
<< Is the only way to accomplish this with this version of IK to become a
scripting guru? >>
Not at all. The flip.zip was done with *no* scripting at all. Besides the
assemble.zip example, I haven't created any other paths for the follow objects
using scripting yet. I plan to tho'.
<< I'm really hoping I can work with this program interactively. I mean all
the work since the Xerox lab days has been about trying to make the computer
understand what the human's trying to tell it. Venturing off into programming
kind of ventures off into a different mindset, don't you think? >>
I was curious if you'd had a chance to review the dummy objects in
flatflip.prj found in flip.zip yet. Do a path-show, hit the "h" key,
and toggle individual dummy objects on and off. Each of the dummies
was keyframed with only a few position keys. I then let Tempo, deal
with the accelleration /deaccel. between specific frame ranges. If
you don't have Tempo yet, download the demo version from IPAS Usage
and review the paths in there too. Please check it out and feel free
to ask question.
Again.. I'm happy that in now works for you.. now lets have some fun with it.
jonas[adesk]