CompuServe Thread

#Broadcast animations

13 messages in this thread
#134499From: maura cloverNov 8, 1994 9:00 PM
I have a 26 sec. animation that I did in Animator Pro. The client requested it on videotape, so I recorded it through an NTSC converter box to VHS tape. The client loved it, but it turns out now that the animation is part of a 7 minute segment for broadcast on TV in December. I was not told this initially. The studio the client is using said that they can't use the VHS tape, and they want the me to provide them with Betacam. The client called me, and I gave her some references that can do an SP dub. (Why the studio can't do the dub themselves is beyond me). I now have concerns about the quality of this piece when broadcast. I wonder if it would be better to send Targa frames out to a studio and have them layed out directly on Betacam instead of getting a dub of the VHS tape. The studio the client is using says that they think the dub will be fine. This is a 640 x 480 x 256 animation. My questions are as follows: (1) can a Betacam SP dub of a VHS tape be good enough for broadcast? (2) if the client should call in a few days and ask me to try the Targa idea, I'll have to back the 366 animation frames out of Pro using Numpic. I assume this will create 256 color .TGAs. Is 256 colors good enough for broadcast quality? Is the idea of laying the individual .TGA frames down direct to Betacam worth doing? Is this, in fact, how I should proceed if the client wants better quality than the SP dub? (3) is the 640×480 size a problem for broadcast? I know there is an NTSC "safe zone". The VHS tape I made does not get clipped off anywhere when played on both 19" and 26" TV sets — even though the client's logo does stretch all the way across the screen. When doing an animation for broadcast TV, what is the best size to use in order to stay in this "safe zone"? Even though my VHS tape seems fine, will the full screen size be a problem when it goes to TV? As you all may have guessed by now, the client wants to incur as little expense as possible. I have never prepared an animation for actual TV broadcast before, and would like to know what the general guidelines are, etc. I understand there are NTSC "forbidden" colors, and I did run the NTSC filter over the background in Photoshop before I composited it into the animation. I would appreciate any help ASAP. Thanks!
#134528From: Don HoganNov 8, 1994 10:25 PM
I thought that I would share a few thoughts that I had regarding you message. I am an Architect doing modeling, rendering and animation and have been in a similar ( yet different ) situation with a client wanting to broadcast an animation. Unfortunately, I couldn't even get to VHS then, so it became a moot point. But now, I can, and have learned that I really wish I could do even better, but oh well… Anyway. I digress. >I have a 26 sec. animation… I also wonder why the studio can't do the dub. >(1) can a Betacam SP dub of a VHS tape… The dub will will indeed be "broadcastable", but the real issue is whether or not the client ( and equally as important, you ) will be happy with the final result. I would guess that the dub will show little generational loss if it is played on a high quality source deck when recorded to SP – a higher quality format anyway. >(2) if the client should call … Again, its as much a matter of what you will be pleased with. If you had originally rendered to TGA files, it would be an easy thing to do; but if you're like me, its a FLC from the very beginning. So, the question might be, would it get any better in 24 bit color? You could render a few widely spaced frames, compare them, and perhaps it will still look as good as intended. I would definitely compare the two before comitting to re-rendering. >(3) is the 640×480 size a problem … You might check it on a 13" TV as well, just to see what a smaller screen is going to crop. If it is ok on the VHS tape, it shouldn't change when it gets dubbed. The "safe zone" can be considered to be about 10% fo the screen area – which didn't mean a thing to me when I read that. But, I have been ultra-conservative and limited it to about 25 to 30 pixels all the way around. So, say 580 x 420 as the smallest working area. >As you all may have guessed … There is a color palette for NTSC in AniPro in the asoft forum, it should be a good starting point. Finally, I would at least try to mention to the client that the SP format is an additional service, and try to encourage them to spend a little more _if_ it is in their best interests – the quality of single frame recording to an SP deck is undeniably better, but it is an excessive (+-) cost. I wish you the very best and hope that it opens up avenues to more exciting work!
#134600From: maura cloverNov 9, 1994 9:14 AM
Thanks for your reply. I looked at the tape over again on a 19" square TV, and the only part that even gets closed to being clipped off is the far right edge of the client's logo. It's all there, but is right to the limit on that side. Other than that, everything looks fairly centered. I usually record to this 19" square screen TV and as I'm working on things that go to videotape, I try to make sure that everything is centered properly by having the image on the screen as I'm working. That way I can also check for weird colors, etc. You mention a 13" TV — gee, can't find one of those around anywhere! I'm going to have to trust that the client's studio will indeed let me know if the Targa thing should be done, but I was quite thrown off by the fact that they can't do the dub themselves. This sent up a red flag. This animation, although very short, will make a nice portfolio piece when recorded off the TV program. I hope it doesn't end up on the cutting room floor, although the client told me that they definitely want to use it. So we'll see. My concerns are that when broadcast, something will get clipped off, or the quality will be poor and grainy. I only wish I had been told at the get-go that this was going to be part of a TV segment.
#135028From: Don HoganNov 10, 1994 6:53 PM
Well, best of luck, and keep me informed fo what you learn, if you don't mind. Don
#135417From: Bryce E. WhitesideNov 12, 1994 9:06 AM
Hi Maura, Gee, who are those TV people. Yes, they will look down their noses at VHS, but we do this all the time. They need to put the VHS machine through a "frame-shaker", a TBC, or in layman's terms, a Time Base Corrector. Then they need to put the signal from the TBC through a DVE (Digital Video Effects machine) or an ADO (Ampex's version of a DVE) and pull it up just a bit to get rid of any head switching and abnormal horizontal blanking. If they have none of the above, they have an interesting low-rent post house and shouldn't be looking down their noses. If they are really low-rent and you have to solve the problem, you need to fine someone with a PAR and 3D Studio, which will be you next lowest cost solution. In the future, it is not particular colors that are the problem in NTSC, but saturation and luminance. For reds and blues you want no more than 70% saturation (75% on the outside) and for whites, yellows and cyans you want no more than 90% luminance. As a general rule you want no more than 70% saturate for all colors and you should be fine. The TBC also fixes the color problem. It can adjust blacks (7.5 IRE), overall video level and color saturation and hue. Now let's discuss the issue of safe action and safe title area. Safe action is the center 90% of the screen and safe title is the center 80% of the screen. The example for safe title is as follows: 640 x .20 / 2 = 64 pixels of border on each side of the horizontal 480 x .20 / 2 = 48 pixels of border on top and bottom of the vertical resolution — | 48 | |-64-+——512——-+-64-| | | | 384 | | | + | 48 | — This holds true for any resolution, 800 x 600 or 1024 x 768. I naturally mean that you will be changing out the 640 and the 480 in the formula. And, and, and for horizontal lines, you want to make them as absolutely three pixels thick at least and preferably antialiased. Bryce Whiteside CF/X Image, Inc. at the big red stick animation outpost down south
#135621From: maura cloverNov 13, 1994 11:17 AM
Thanks so much for the info. It really helps. The client had the VHS tape output to Betacam SP. The studio told them it would be fine. I have my doubts, but… The client's logo takes up most of the 640 horizontal area of the screen in the final shot, but when I played the VHS tape back on both a 19" and 26" TV, it wasn't cut off. Hope that holds true for the final version when broadcast. The client is on a very cheap budget. Since I would like to use this as a portfolio piece and tape it as it's broadcast, I hope they don't botch it up totally!
#135631From: bruce gorenNov 13, 1994 12:38 PM
Bryce, Please note that a "Frame Shaker" is a Frame Synchronizer — not a Time Base Correcter (TBC). Modern Frame Sync's incorporate TBC's and Processing Amplifiers (Proc Amps) into the same units. A device labeled a TBC is not a full fledged frame sync. Most modern TBC's also incorporate Proc Amps . Bruce N. Goren
#135655From: Bryce E. WhitesideNov 13, 1994 3:03 PM
Bruce, Well spoken and leave it to a broadcast engineer to make the distinction. I know you are trying to keep everything absolutely accurate here on ASOFT. Like you said, modern Frame Sync's incorporate TBC's and Proc Amps. We often call the same unit a Frame Sync or a TBC depending on what we are primarily using it for a the moment. But yes I stand corrected on the finer points of a modern "Frame Shaker". So what is next on your review plate? Bryce W.
#135829From: bruce gorenNov 14, 1994 11:36 AM
The November issue of TV Technology should be out any day now, my review of TMorph3 was scheduled to be in there. Beyond that there's a stack of stuff circling my computers in a holding pattern, but I'm not certain when or what will be next.
#134582From: Ted BoardmanNov 9, 1994 8:00 AM
If you have access to 3DS/PAR?Beta, the flic and be used as a background in 3DS and rerendered directly to Beta very quickly. You might do a test to see what distortion is introduced when you render to 752×480, which is the full frame PAR resolution. You can also render to 640×480 and have black edges.
#134601From: maura cloverNov 9, 1994 9:15 AM
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I don't have 3DS. I'm using Caligari Truespace as my modeler and 3D animator, in conjunction with AA Pro. Truespace is very affordable and powerful for the $$$. Maybe some day I'll be able to afford something like 3DS…
#135423From: David WrightNov 12, 1994 9:53 AM
Hi Maura. safe zone there are 2 "legal" def of safe [SMPTE recommended practices RP 273 – iff you realy care!<g>] 90% for action – 80% for text I made some pencil marks on computer monitors bezel draw diagonal lines from corners make 2 squares 80 & 90 % of your 640×480 pixels (you do the math <g>) get the corners on the diagonal lines stay inside boxes! hot colors/illegal they may not look bad on preview first copy – but bleed in later generations or thru editing go to color palette switch to HLS saturation is last all colors shoud be less than about 75% (of 255 – you do more math!) I think there is a poco program on libray that helps make wholesale desaturation of pallets – DESAT.POC, but may be more trouble than you need. Whites to greys aren't realy saturated. if you ran NTSC check – you're probly ok dubbing studio should have waveform/vector scope to check – ask any time a copy is made of tape it goes down in quality. even going to "better" type. however if dub studio has TBD and cares they may be able to tweek things so its ok most Broadcast houses don't have any thing as low as VHS – many reasons – but it just is. If your FLC is in good shape and you have machine that it plays smoothly on [in AAPLAYHI] then all you need is "good" video card best is one that puts out component (vs NTSC) so can get dumped real time to BETA SP like some targa cards one of the service bureaus should help if it plays unevenly – motion is jerky then frame accurate is help You don't have to go to sequential tgas! there is utility called FLITAPE comes with anipro should work with at your service bureau Your client may need education in cost vs value. If client wants stuff on TV , and wants it to look good – then needs to pay price for all your work. generaly due to lack of experence I have had clients that knew difference, but were trying to get me to pay for it (in work) if you find your customer doesn't appreciate the value, and refuses to accept education then find new customer. dave
#135622From: maura cloverNov 13, 1994 11:19 AM
Thanks for the info. I stayed away from reds — the one area that has a little red in it, I used a dark red brown. When I played the VHS tape back on my TV, the dark red brown looked like a nice red, but didn't appear to bleed. I wish the client had told me from the outset that this was going to be broadcast… oh well, maybe next time. Their budget is almost nonexistent for this. I guess I will find out on Dec. 4 how it all comes out…