CompuServe Thread

R4 Fast Preview

22 messages in this thread
#136234From: Nik Grant [adesk]Nov 15, 1994 3:11 PM
" (Hopefully the new batch of 3d accelerator chips coming out will hold some promise… IF Adesk decides to support the new cards)" Yup! I don't forward them to management weekly, as Jonas suggests, but monthly. As far as bug collecting for Vibrant drivers, that's weekly. The way something gets on the "wishlist" is that someone reports that they have such-and-such a card and can't see it listed in the current drivers. The more folks who have the card increases the likelihood of Autodesk commissioning Vibrant to write those drivers. Do you have a particular card in mind for the wishlist?
#137097From: David StinnettNov 20, 1994 4:47 AM
>>Do you have a particular card in mind for the wishlist? The cards I was thinking about are not out yet. I'm hoping for direct support for the new 3D rendering chips (the Glint, among others I've read about, that are to be integrated into new graphics cards), so that we can enjoy hardware assisted shaded previews of animations in near realtime. I'm sorry, but the R4 previewer doesn't even come CLOSE to near realtime for animations (even on a Pentium it's painfully slow – even in wireframe, I've found it useless on all but the simplest geometry, and it has too many drawbacks to appeal to me). Hopefully, it won't be difficult for 3ds to put these new technologies to good use. David
#137125From: Yost GroupNov 20, 1994 10:44 AM
That's a very popular item on most folks' wishlists, fyi. – G
#137133From: bruce gorenNov 20, 1994 2:22 PM
Gary, I saw several OpenGL savvy 3D cards at Comdex this past week, some were only prototypes, not all used standard hardware. It looks to me that this will be the way to implement features like Fast Preview with any degree of usefulness. With everything still in turmoil, I'm holding off on my Pentium purchase until after NAB. Also, last week at the SGI authoring conference the Silicon Studio people were explicit in pointing out that the only path to the PC platform for the Keystone and Firewalker developement environments would be OpenGL chips on graphics display or accelerator cards. I hope that with R-5 Adesk is allowing you more manuevering room to to set the core feature set. I get the distinct impression from reading between he lines of the threads here that corporate took some creative control out of your hands in order to ship a revenue generating product by an arbitrary timeline. There's enough value packed in to R-4 so that no lasting harm is done. But it wasn't all that long ago that you stole this market away from a sleeping and greedy Crystal/GSL . There are able competitors out there just waiting for a mis-step to exploit. Bruce N. Goren
#137184From: Yost GroupNov 20, 1994 10:33 PM
Actually, the reason why we were only involved with some of the technology behind r4 is because we've been balls-to-the-wall on the next generation 3DS for quite some time now. The folks at Autodesk were kind enough to take on most of the R4 release-level work so we could concentrate on inventing the future. I would've loved to have been as anally-compulsive about R4 as I was about R1-3, but the future is pretty tough to invent, and our customers needed inverse kinematics, scripting and the various bug-fixes and IPAS API enhancements BADLY (hence, R4). So, I get to be as anal compulsive about R5 as I can possibly be, which is even more than R1-3. I can't ramble on about this any more without breaking my confidentiality obligations. Sorry. – G
#137206From: David StinnettNov 21, 1994 12:43 AM
>>I can't ramble on about this any more without breaking my confidentiality obligations. Sorry. I can't imagine how difficult it must be sitting around here listening to the various complaints that roll by, and not being able to say a word to anybody about it, even though you may be hard at work addressing those very issues right now. You must have fun at Siggraph, when you finally get to show off. David
#137254From: Yost GroupNov 21, 1994 9:50 AM
Well… since I'm someone who likes to surprise people, it's not as tough as you'd imagine. It's more amusing than anything else to see how many folks think that we don't have a clue. Siggraph's have always been a lot of fun for me, and 1995 ain't gonna be an exception. – G
#137279From: Jeffrey LererNov 21, 1994 12:06 PM
<how many folks think that we don't have a clue> Gary, that's a good one. That would be something like having dinner with and abstract math researcher, with a specialty in chaos theory. Though I use fractal dev. platforms extensively, in the development of maps, shapes, and animated interactive elements, starting to argue with him would only reflect the fact that the appetizer was perhaps not agreeing with me so well. On the other hand, if he was being funded for his research, or his research was being utilized…. therein, we could engage in quite a polemic. You see, my problem always comes back to "reality". So, with "balls-to-the-wall, best wishes as you plow toward R5. Jeffrey
#137225From: bruce gorenNov 21, 1994 4:13 AM
No problem my friend. Looking forward to a return to uncompromising perfection under your steady hand in 3DS-TNG . Bruce N. Goren
#137255From: Yost GroupNov 21, 1994 9:50 AM
Engaged. <g> – G
#138494From: Peter M. GruhnNov 29, 1994 8:03 AM
Um, regarding the actual subject… Fast Preview… I don't have the $700 until maybe Feb, so could somebody please post/send a still of this, so I can just have an idea of what it looks like? – gruhn
#137243From: Nik Grant [adesk]Nov 21, 1994 9:05 AM
Thanks David. Keep me / Autodesk informed with specifics as they come up. I've got your GLint note filed. Nik
#137372From: M. G. BATCHELORNov 22, 1994 12:12 AM
<< The cards I was thinking about are not out yet. I'm hoping for direct support for the new 3D rendering chips (the Glint, among others I've read about, that are to be integrated into new graphics cards) >> The GLiNT processor really looks like it has a lot of potential. It would be really nice if the YG could somehow be involved in the development of a graphics card that the GLiNT would be built in to. Maybe integrate the card into the typically software-only "package", and market it as such. BILL
#137391From: David StinnettNov 22, 1994 2:42 AM
I just noticed a flier from 3D labs (the Glint people) saying that they have partnered with Adesk to "port and optimize Autodesk's 3D software to the Glint…". Who knows if 3DS is included with that, but I'd like to think so. David
#137445From: M. G. BATCHELORNov 22, 1994 11:00 AM
<< partnered with Adesk to "port and optimize Autodesk's 3D software >> Really ? It said *_3D_* software ? Was that the recent 2-sided card that went out and featured the S3 announcment ? BILL
#137579From: David StinnettNov 23, 1994 2:11 AM
It was a single page newsletter of sorts. Here is the sidebar in full, "3Dlabs and the technology component division of Autodesk are partnering to port and optimize Autodesk's 3D software to the Glint family of graphics processors. The first result of this partnership will be a no charge bundle of HDI with every Glint chip." I would tend to think that Adesk's main interest would be with their VR software, not necesarily 3DS.
#137590From: Alex KaramanoglouNov 23, 1994 6:43 AM
Well does that mean that I'm going to have to buy yet ANOTHER VGA accelerated board, or is this in addition to the 64 bit Matrox I have? Because Matrox has hardware support for the OpenGL 3D library, and I was hoping that IT would become the standard, just like it became for SGI. Let me know…Alex.
#137849From: David StinnettNov 24, 1994 11:26 PM
>>Let me know… I'm not the one to ask, as I don't know much at all about these new cards, other than what I read in CGW and the like. All I do know is that I hold high hopes for any promise of better realtime interactivity when working with 3DS (as do the rest of us I'm sure).
#137636From: M. G. BATCHELORNov 23, 1994 11:08 AM
RE: GLiNT…Hey, write a version of 3DS around it, drop the card in the software package, charge more for those who want it. I think that's the only way to get real performance out of something like GLiNT. <ggg>
#137670From: bruce gorenNov 23, 1994 1:01 PM
That strategy, of special version software and hardware accelerator bundles, failed miserably for Cubicomp (I-860), GSL/Topas (I-860), and to a lesser extent, Digital Arts (T-800). They had to charge around ten grand just for the boards. An ADI driver, and/or port to an OpenGL savvy operating system, is probably the only sensible way to implement that kind of performance boost. Open-Gl (Glint and other proprietary chips) hardware, will be available commodity priced for just a few hundred bucks in the open consumer market in the coming months.
#137689From: M. G. BATCHELORNov 23, 1994 2:38 PM
<< That strategy, of special version software and hardware accelerator bundles, failed miserably for Cubicomp (I-860), GSL/Topas (I-860), and to a lesser extent, Digital Arts (T-800). >> I used all 3 of those systems, and all 3 were very poor implementations. They were not really worth the money for the little bit of speedup. None of them used hardware assisted GUI functions, which is the real issue here….not final rendering. This area is the most signifigant difference between working on SGI & a PC host. That was then, and this is now <g>. If a *very dedicated* developer such as the YG really got involved with the design & operation of the card, and tailored a version of the s/w to it, it could likely be one he**-of-a system ! If it was one he**-of-a system, with AD's support, it could sell. Of course, this is only my opinion <g>.
#138191From: Frank FosterNov 28, 1994 2:00 AM
It's Dave from work. The guys at Creative Labs who are making the GLINT chip sets for most of the board manufacturers said that someone is writing an IPAS to interface the OPEN/GL conformance. 3DS missed supporting it for release 4 so hopefully in r.5. Talk to you later.