#Election Day Narcosis
13 messages in this thread
Don-
There have been plenty of abuses by union leaderships as far as lining
their own pockets go, but that is characteristic of any monetary interest,
embodied as one person or many people. They have also fought for and
gotten good wages for workers. It is in this day and age of drastically
lowered union power that wages are such a gross problem.
Paul – wearing my black construction paper funeral suit
Paul,
Since when are wages "…such a gross problem."?
Work has a certain value….if you don't get paid that value…go get a
job that pays the value. If there are no jobs that pay appropriately, perhaps
your judgement of its value is too high.
Businesses are in business to make money….if business X has 1,000
workers and they can pay them $10/hr vs $11/hr…the costs of being in business
is $1,000/hr cheaper. That $1,000/hr can go towards increased profits (why
they are in business in the first place)…or lower prices to the consumer
(where the business may make less $ per part…but makes more parts..so overall
makes more $)….or a combination of both.
It's a two way street. If no one makes enough money…no one will be a
consumer of goods other than bare necessities…and businesses will fail. If
wages are too high,profits will be low, prices will be high and uncompetitive
with similar consumer products produced elsewhere (where wages are lower)…and
again…businesses will fail.
Any business that intends to stay in business strikes a balance between
wages, prices and profits. Sure…intended to maximize profits, but what's
wrong with that…that is why they are there in the first place.
Don
Don-
I'm not saying that every business can afford to pay a living wage, or
should do so when it can't. But what is someone to do if s/he can't find
enough work to make ends meet? A person's judgement of the value of
his/her work is irrelevant if the compensation received is too little to
live on.
Obviously, public policy should seek to create an environment in which
everyone can afford to survive and there isn't a surplus of people.
Paul – wearing my black construction paper funeral suit
Paul,
If you can't make ends meet…you lower your standards…or you work 2
or 3 jobs to make the $ to make endsmeet.
No…under my current standard of living…a job at Burger King isn't
going to pay my way. So I could do one or more of several things:
1. Get a 2nd job.
2. Have my wife do likewise.
3. Sell things at garage sales or pawn them to pay bills.
4. That may include moving to a smaller house/apartment/whatever.
5. Get a better job.
6. Eat cheaper foods.
7. Knock on doors and see if there are any odd jobs around the
neighborhood that need done.
8. Barter with neighbors or businesses for services.
9. Knock on doors of businesses in the area for odd jobs.
10. Whatever it takes to keep going…as long as it's legal.
Don
Don-
That list is good, and sometimes it will be enough, but sometimes it
-won't- be enough to pull in enough money. I'm not talking about how
rotten it is to sell a CD player, I'm talking about how rotten it is not
to have enough money to pay the gas bill or buy enough food.
Paul – wearing my black construction paper funeral suit
In what way do you perceive wages to be a 'problem' now?
Lots of people have jobs that don't pay enough. Lots of people have to
work 2 or more jobs to survive. Lots of people have to work too many
hours/week. Lots of mothers have to work during the critical developement
times of their children. And lots of people just aren't earning enough
money. Times are tight for many.
Paul – wearing my black construction paper funeral suit
and…
You have point?
My point is that regardless of the rantings of so many conservatives, you
can't necessarily just go out and get a job if you only try hard enough.
Paul – wearing my black construction paper funeral suit
Paul,
Of course I can't talk about anyplace except here in Denver, but I've
been shopping the last few days (like most people)…and just about every store
had a help wanted sign out. These are not skilled jobs, just simple sales
clerk or stock person. Many of the signs stated the jobs were permanent full
time positions.
If I were trying…I could probably have had 10 jobs in the last few
days…and turned down another 20.
Don
Don-
Well, I haven't been to Denver since I was 7, so I can hardly talk
about that great city. (I was born there.) But how much do those jobs
pay, what benefits do they provide, can you live on the wages, etc etc
etc. It's great that there are jobs available. Any work can help. But,
contrary to what some people here seem to believe, just getting a job or
3, if you can, won't just automatically solve all your problems. And
here's something else to consider: many of those jobs may be seasonal.
Paul – wearing my black construction paper funeral suit
it's not only conservative who hold that point of view. That there are many
who think the only jobs available are 'beneath them' is clearly part of the
problem.