#Trumpcard/Quantum help
38 messages in this thread
HELP!!! I just got a Quantum 210 meg and Trumpcard Pro controller. It won't
recognize the drive. This is my third hard drive (I did the mountlists
myself for the first two), and I've owned an Amiga for a long time, but I'm
stumped! Got this stuff mail order, and the tech guy has never seen a
Quantum 210. He told me to remove the jumpers from A1 & A2 to make it drive
0. That seemed okay to me, since my remaining SCSI drive was DH2:. However,
the Trumpcard, which had been reading my old Quantum 40 meg OK, still
refused to see the 210-meg drive in its hardcard area, and the drive light
stuck on, and the system hung. I stopped everything and got it all out of
there, restored my old 2090 controller and ST-506 DH0/DH1, and here I am.
The 210-meg drive on the hardcard, by the way, was QUITE warm
(AAAAARRRRGHHH!). I don't think I trust my tech guy, but I do trust you
guys. So, once again, HHEEELLLLPPPP!!!
Don Weed
Don,
Sounds like you left a jumper on A0, remove that also to set the ID
to SCSI ID 0.
Don
Sorry I've been gone. Been working TOO much the last couple of days.
Anyway, got it all fixed late last night when I got home. If I don't get to
all these wonderful, helpful messages, let this serve to say how much I
appreciate everyone here. The problems were the device number and the
terminator pack. All AOK now. I've been loading on all my software (and
I've got a lot!), and it just keeps saying things like "13% full — FEED
ME!". Good grief, this is a huge drive. I'm now up to 1/3 the capacity of
my machine at work! Thanks again to you and everyone.
Don Weed
Don,
You're welcome! Glad everything worked out ok.
Don
Don,
If you are saying that when you try to boot up, the HD lite comes on and
stays on, then this is normally a symptom that you have the 50 pin SCSI
cable hooked up backwards. You might try turning it over and trying it
again. Having it hooked up backwards won't hurt anything. It just won't
work.
Every 3.5 SCSI HD I've seen runs very warm. It also makes a difference if
you are running with the cover of your 2000 removed. The air flow is
disrupted thru the machine and things do run a little hotter than normal,
especially if you have several boards plugged in.
Let me know if this doesn't work and we'll try something else to get you up
and running.
Greg
Greg White / MicroSearch 72230,1617
We listen to our customers..carefully
50 pin scsi cable should be 'keyed' to make it easy to see if its in right.
don't recommend careless ignoring of the key. hope you are right that it
won't hurt the drive if it's backward but getting it right shouldn't be
hard.
Dan,
Almost all (if not all) of the embedded SCSI drives I've dealt with
have bare berg pins on them…no key'ed socket. The A2090 (and several
other host adapters I've used) are likewise.
They do have pin 1 labeled, and the cable should have a stripe on
the pin 1 end…but you definately can't rely on key'ed cables and sockets
because my experience is that they are rarely used.
Don
I have seldom, if ever, found a SCSI connector that is really keyed and on
many drives you have to look carefully to find the arrowhead that
designates Pin 1.
The cable is set up so that when you turn it over you ground all the
signals on the SCSI bus. This is what turns the LED on all the time. The
drivers on the controller are designed to handled this so no harm is done.
You're correct that "getting it right shouldn't be hard." You have a 50-50
chance. 😉
Greg
Greg White / MicroSearch 72230,1617
We listen to our customers..carefully
don and greg – my scsi drives have keyed sockets, but cable makers rarely
use real keyed connectors (too cheap i guess). recent experience with
following the red stripe on a floppy drive caused my friend to get it wrong
(mfr didn't do things right and failed to provide keyed connectors). wish
it weren't so, but you're right. pin1 marking is one guide, key matching
another, and 50/50 permanent drive light the worst. the red stripe should
usually be right, but may not always be. best to really look at what you're
doing. the resistor packs are easy to overlook. i know of no controller
maker who gives you diagrams of the a0,a1,a2 device select pinson various
drives, either (enormously helpful info as some drives have the Ax pins
mixed in with a bank of other jumper selection options in a big block which
is not marked at all!). quantum sends their drives out configured as #6 or
#7, weird! too bad all scsi drives are not accompanied by at least minimal
documentation.
Dan,
How can the red strip not be right? Red stripe side to pin 1 on
the host adapter and red strip side to pin 1 on the drive.
That of course presumes the socket on the host adapter and drive
are either bare berg pins…or unkeyed sockets.
If someone makes up a key'ed connector and puts the red stripe (or
black/blue/whatever) on the wrong side of the connector then the cable
maker has a BIG problem.
Sure…if they made the same mistake on both ends of the
cable…it'll work…but I wouldn't trust the manufacturer.
But in any event…key'ed or unkey'ed…as long as the same side of
the cable goes to pin 1 (stripped or not) on both ends…it'll work.
Out of curiosity…who makes the drives with the key'ed sockets?
I've worked with Micropolis, HP, Conner, SeaGate and MiniScribe drives and
Adaptek, DPT and Emulex adapters and none of them have key'ed sockets on
them.
Don
Don:
I have a Seagate ST157N and it has a keyed connector. I also have a couple
of Quantum's and they both have keyed connectors. Also a couple of
Miniscribe drive's I got laying here also have keyed connectors. I always
thought all drives had keyed connectors? At least every one I've ever seen
had keyed connectors. (that is IF the cable connector was keyed it could
only go on the drive one way, however if the cable doesn't have the key on
it then the cable could go on any of these drives either way.)
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike,
Nope…I'm sitting here looking at 3 Conner drives and one old
Xebec drive…bare berg connectors on each. At work, we use Micropolis and
HP drives, bare berg connectors on them also.
I've used SeaGate and MiniScribe drives also…again, no key'ed
connectors.
I'm also looking at an Adaptec 4070, it's got bare connectors, same
with the 4000. At work, we've got several DPT SMD<->SCSI adapters, all
bare connectors there too. Same with the ESDI<->SCSI adapters (made by
Emulex I believe) at work…bare connectors.
In fact, I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen a SCSI drive or
SCSI adapter with key'ed connectors on them and don't recall seeing one.
That certainly doesn't mean they don't exist, and that's only a
limited set of drives I've worked with…but that's what my experience is.
Don
Don,
They exist. I'm looking at a Seagate 277N right here that has a keyed
connector. A SyQuest drive here also does. I'll admit that I don't recall
too many others having one though.
Dean
DKB Software
I think it just means that you are older than we are and more familiar with
older equipment. 😉
Craig
Craig,
It's not nice to fool Mother Nature! <grin>
Don
Don,
I've just checked my Conner CP-340, Seagate 157N, Seagate 125N and
Syquest SCSI drives, and they all have keyed connectors.
Maybe it is the term "keyed" that is causing the confusion? These drives
have a "slot" in one side that matches up to a "bump" on the cable
connector. That way they can only be connected in the proper manner. But
not all cables come with "bumps" on the connectors. So even if the drives
are keyed, you have to pay attention to the PIN #1 positions to use those
cables.
Lloyd
Lloyd,
Nope…I know what a key'ed connector is, and I've got 3 Conner
CP-340's sitting next to my computer at home right now…and none of them
have key'ed connectors. Just the bare berg pins with nothing around them
but thin air.
Obviously if your Conner's have them, and mine don't…then
somewhere in the manufacturing process…things changed.
Don
Don,
As I just said in a msg to Greg, my Wren has a keyed socket.
-sja
don – i've seen the red strip on in reverse on the inside cable in a floppy
made by a famous maker. i've got keyed sockets on my Priam738, my
seagate2383N, and Quantum40. that is, they have the 1/8 inch slot on the
bottom of the 50-pin receptacle and can (and should) be used with keyed
sockets on the 50-pin cables. most 50-pin cable connectors don't have the
1/8 inch protrusion on the bottom (the key), but those connectors only cost
a few pennies more. the sockets on the drive don't have 'blocked pins' or
other extreme key – just the nice 1/8 inch slot in the bottom of the socket
to fit the protruding 1/8 inch bump on a good connector from the cable.
i've rarely seen scsi cables with the bumps on the connectors but i always
purchase those type connectors now to make my own scsi cables.
Greg,
Just FYI — I've got a Wren III and the socket is keyed.
-sja
Steve, some drives are keyed, some are not. I think the biggest problem is
that most connectors are not keyed. I have 3 different brands of SCSI
connectors in stock, bought at different times, and none of them are keyed.
I will check, but I don't think the cables CBM ships with the 2091 or
Microbotics ships with the HardFrame are keyed either.
Greg
Greg White / MicroSearch 72230,1617
We listen to our customers..carefully
Thanks, Greg. All fixed now. I've put a few SCSI cables on backwards in my
time, so I can usually recognize that one. Appreciate the info on the
temperature. That was sort of scary! It runs great!
Don Weed
Donald,
Glad to be of help.
Greg
Greg White / MicroSearch 72230,1617
We listen to our customers..carefully
suggest contact ivs by phone. ask for Adam. check if tcpro sosoftware is
latest version. suggest removing cable to other ddrives and trying
installing the q210 by itself with the tc software (with scsi jumpers set
the way you want them to be when using the drive with other drives in the
system) then putting the drive into the chain of scsi drives after setup is
complete. have had some experience with tcpro and quantum40, priam738, and
seagate 2383n all working simultaneously and find tcpro a real joy with
latest latest version of software and rom. recent change in tcpro driver
may affect you. call ivs – they are very nice and helpful. also only
remove jumpers from a0,a1,a2 if you want to. tcpro software should
automatically recognize whatever scsi device # you have set with the
jumpers and even show you it on the screen – very handy during setup.
mountlist irrelevant for tcpro if you do stuff 'right'.
also be sure when using tcpro software that you boot from the ivs disk, not
some other disk or hd. you may have to disable the autoboot jumper on tcpro
board and put ivs floppy in drive 0.
Daniel,
I caught this message Thursday morning before I went to work, but didn't
have time to reply to you. I tried calling Adam at IVS, but he wasn't at
his desk. Fortunately, while I was on hold, I started through the manual
and came upon a section called "Troubleshooting" (hmmm!). It addressed my
problems rather directly, I'm ashamed to admit. Now, I'm a good manual
reader, but after disassembling an entire computer, fighting to get the
little screws that fell in between the boards, sweating, fogging up the
eyeglasses, etc., you get a little zooey. Anyway, all's well now. I think I
finally did TCPro 'right', although my version doesn't automatically
recognize a Quantum 210-meg. I had it make up a mountlist for the 105-meg
and then basically doubled things. Worked like a charm. I assume the jumper
on 'EP' was the terminator, because I took it off and things are working
(??!!?). Thanks for all the info. Never did get hold of Adam, though.
Don Weed
Don:
The jumper on EP stands for Enable Parity. It is NOT the terminators, but
rather some setting that while I don't know what it does, I know it's not
the terminators. On the Quantum drives they use 3 terminators that are
right behind the SCSI connector. If your drive has them they should be
removed, if you drive doesn't have them you should see three sets of holes
where they would fit.
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike,
The SCSI spec allows for a 9th bit to be send..a parity bit. I
don't recall if it's odd or even parity…but in any case, it's used as an
error checking mechanism.
The EP jumper allows the drive to send and receive that 9th bit and
check it's validity. Unfortunately, different drives enable it by leaving
the jumper on, and other drives enable it by leaving the jumper off.
Don
Don:
Do you know if any Amiga host adapters use the 9th bit parity at all? More
specifically do you know if GVP uses it at all? BTW, I guess that it
depends on the drive, as the ones I have here (all of them), from
Miniscribe, Seagate, Quantum and SyQuest all seem to have keyed connectors
on them.
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike,
No idea on the GVP. In fact, no idea on any of them.
Don
Uh-oh. I guess I don't have any parity right now, but things are working
fine anyway. I'll check for the terminator holes when I go back to replace
the EP jumper (sigh). I assume there is no active termination from DH0: as
my DH1: is accessed just fine. Quantum is a terrific drive manufacturer,
but I sure would like to have just one manual between my two drives. Thanks
again for the help.
Don Weed
the jumper marked EP is probably 'enable parity' and may or may not be
critical. the terminator resistors are in-line 8 or 9 or 10 pin slim
little critters which go into sockets. usually there are three of them,
but some drives have a single dip chip-like contraption instead. READ
those MANUALS! TCPro should see your drive just fine – may not have if you
didn't remove the terminator resistor packs. Call Adam anyway. you
shouldn't need any mountlist entry when using TCPro with their latest
software!
All's running great for both drives, even without the EP jumper. My
mountlist was created by TCPro, and by the way I don't think I was sent the
latest software, or Trumpcard ROM. I will send off for that. Anyway, thanks
for all the help.
Don Weed
three cheers for TCPro – get the new software and ROM – and thanks for the
kind words.
forgot to mention – if drive isn't the last in the chain you MUST remove
the terminator resistor packs. if drive is now last in chain, please
remove terminator resistor packs from drive which USED to be last in chain.