2MB floppy on my A3000
65 messages in this thread
Hey! Am I the only one being able to format 2MB floppies on an amiga 3000!?
Yesterday my friend put a 2MB floppy disk by mistake in his Amiga 3000 and
did a format that took longer than usually… the result: 1.6MB on the
disk!!! And fully utilisable!!! even with Quarterback (14MB Backup on 7
floppies!). And it even formats under FFS (1739k/disk). The disks aren't
faster but they have twice as much room… nice for image disks and other
stuff!
My configuration is the following:
Amiga 3000 rev.9 with 2.04 systeme.
Anybody with the same results!??
Pat (from Quebec city)
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how old is your machine? I got mine in Oct with Rev 9.3 MB and I don't
believe it has the new floppy.
-Greg
The one we used for testing is the one (16 Mhz) that we currently have in
stock… we are going to check we some customers next week to see if they
have to be happy or not!! 🙂 I hope they will! Pat
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Pat–
Really strange! Could it be that C= accidentally slipped the long awaited
HD floppy drive into the machine? Truly strange, indeed.
Jonathan
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Jonathan, I would like to give you an explanation but I can't…! Why would
C= not tell his A3000 customers that they can use 2MB floppies!?
Pat
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Pat–
I guess that C= has a history of slipping in upgrades when no one was
looking – when I purchased my 2000, it had WB/KS 1.3 installed, and that
was before any official announcement of any kind. I guess that in Europe,
some machines have started shipping with 2.04 built in, again without any
announcement. However, as news like yours begins to spread, its going to
give dealers a real headache, especially if they have any stock of A3000's
on hand. If I were going to buy one today, I would now insist on a HD
drive in my machine.
Out of curiousity…when was the machine purchased? I have a
3000/25 here at work, and I think I'm going to try slipping a HD floppy in
it, just for fun. Some other information that would be valuable – what
kind of floppy drive is installed in the machine (brand and model#). If I
could just buy a raw drive, and have it come to life as an HD floppy, I
would do it in a second…
Enjoy the bigger drive. Its a shame that us 2000 owners are locked
out of this technology…
Jonathan
Jonathan, why would we A2000 owners be locked out of the new tech? (hd
floppy drives) Shoot, if you had WB2.0 installed, then we should just be
able to plug in a new floppy drive, right? 🙂
–jp–seattle–
One of our customer tried to install a 2MB floppy in his A500 a couple of
weeks ago and came to the conclusion that it is not a limitation of the
system but mostly a limitation of the I/O chips in the amiga more than a
limitation of the system. It looks like that they have modify these chips
in the new Amiga 3000!?
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It is a Kickstart limitation. You have to have 2.04 in order to support
the drives.
The particular implementation of these special drives is in order to be
compatible with the existing chipsets.
John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
Does your A3000 have an HD drive also? (If you've already said so, excuse
my stupidity for missing it or forgetting it.)
Darin, SPC Technical Support
John–
Don't think so. I believe that there is some sort of bandwidth limitation
on the A2000 motherboard that precludes HD drives. However, (get read for
some 'ifs'): if the price of floptical drives came down, and if someone
like GVP or IVS wrote the needed software, one could have HD drives (as
most flopticals are downwardly compatible with IBM 3-1/4 formats). One can
only hope. Right now, flopticals are going for well over $500…
Jonathan
On the A2000… what about 68030 based A2000's? (sorry, but since I have a
68030 I'm curious where the limitation lies)
–jp–seattle–
I have had an A3000 since about April or May. I borrowed a HD floppy disk
from my dealer today, tried to format it, and it came out as 880K. If this
is true about getting nearly 2 megs from a floppy, it must be the drives,
or something in the newer 3000s.
– db —–> via Whap!
I'd bet it is only with recent machines, or else someone would have
mentioned it by now I'd think. I'll have to get to a dealer RSN and check
out one of their newer A3000's (if I can find a Seattle dealer with a newer
A3000… 🙁
–jp–seattle–
I just bought a A3000 on the last day of October. I brought a HD disk home
and all I get is a measly 880K. Keep us informed especially if it turns
out like an IBM where there is a special input to have it format in HD
mode.
John
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John,
As you are probably aware…HD disks have two holes in them. The
normal write protect hole, and one opposite it that is always open (no
slider on it like the write protect hole has).
HD drives sense that 2nd hole and "report" it.
The system simply sense if that hole exists, and if so…formats
the disk at the higher density. This is the same way IBM's do it also. In
fact, on an IBM, you have to use a switch (or virtual drive) to tell it to
format the disk at anything other than 1.44 (on the IBM that is).
So based on everything I've seen here…you pop the disk in, and
format it. If you've got the HD drive…(and an HD disk of course) it'll
format at the higher density.
This is NOT from experience, just from what I've read here.
Don
IBM drives now have autosense? I remember IBM's official response to the
request by other manufacturers to put the 2nd hole in the disks and to
recognize them. IBM refused catagorically. Don't go around giving IBM any
credit for this at all, they don't deserve it.
One additional piece of information here is that this drive AUTOMATICALLY
cuts the speed of the drive motor in half whenever it senses the HD
diskette.
John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
You MUST use a HD diskette with the notch cut on the other side in order to
see more than 880K. The drive automatically detects this to do the magic.
John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
John–
Supposedly (and I do mean supposedly, in light of some findings that are
being discussed here) the bandwidth limitation lies in the custom chip set.
Sooo…you could hook up a prototype 68050, but the limitation would still
be present…if indeed it is at all.
Jonathan
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Jonathan:
Not all Flopticals are over $500.00, only the 3.5" ones. I'm still selling
some 5.25" Konica Floptical drives for $200.00 that can read/write 10megs,
and can read IBM formatted 360k and 1.2meg drives (using CrossDOS to mount
a MS-DOS partition, the size selection is done internal to the drive). If
you want more info, let me know, and I'll email you the ad I had posted
here a while ago (and might repost soon as well).
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike–
I also seem to remember that that was some trouble using the Konica with a
GVP card, so I think I'll pass…don't need it for the machine at work.
Jonathan
I agree with you, but my point of you is that when a compagny comes out
with a new revision of a major part in a computer il should protect at
least his dealer's inventory… we are not talking about a clone here… we
are talking about a computer that worth thousands of dollars. Same thing
should be done with 2.04… customers having bought their machine in the
last 30 days should have KS/WB 2.0 free or at least a a special price to
avoid news sales waiting coming products.
As of the brand and model # of the floppy, I will check it for you… the
only thing I can tell you now is that the two A3000 we received last week
had the HD floppy… I can't tell for the one we sold the weeks before.
One last funny thing is that one of our customer who bought is A3000 a
couple of months ago saw our message and ask us for the price of the A3000
HD floppy for his A3000 and we called our Commodore office you guess the
answer: NO IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO HAVE A HIGH DENSITY FLOPPY WITH AN AMIGA!!
🙂
Maeby I should start selling some to C=! 🙂
Pat
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Pat–
Looking forward to getting the information on the raw drive. I really
could use an HD floppy, mostly for inport and export purposes.
As for CBM: I am (more than ever) strongly convinced that they have their
collective head up their collective butt.
Jonathan
Good news… today we succesfully installed a 2MB floppy at the place of
the DF0: inside an Amiga 500 (under KS/WB 2.0)… we were able to boot from
either a 1MB or a 2MB workbench and the systeme was able to recognize both
format… good news!!! more infos to come soon…!
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Pat–
Wow! I think I've heard about a million times that the 500/2000 series
would not support a high density drive because of bandwidth
limitations…and now your telling me that it works! This is great news.
Please, please tell me what the model# of the raw drive is, because I'm
going to order one immediately! I was hoping to have an HD drive on my
3000 at work, but to get one in my 2000 at home would be AMAZING!!!
Eagerly awaiting the information…
Jonathan
Sorry, but there is no name or brand and the HD drive… but after a couple
of phone calls we were able to find that the drive is a special Chinon
drive specially manifactured for Commodore and available only from C=.
We have tried a certain number of 1.44 MB floppies and none of these wanted
to work in our a3000.
Pat.
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do you have the replacement part # from C= parts??
BEN:Leigh's Computer's
No I don't have the replacement part # from C= parts!
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Pat;
OK, you said that the drive worked on a 500 with 2.0 installed; it stands
to reason that it will work on a 2000 as well. Is there a Commodore part
number for the drive? Is it the same as an internal floppy for the 3000?
If so, I will order one through my dealer, or perhaps, the Grapevine group.
Jonathan
No, there is no C= part number on it… only the Chinon label.
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Pat:
> Good news… today we succesfully installed a 2MB floppy at the place of
> the DF0: inside an Amiga 500 (under KS/WB 2.0)… we were able to boot >
from either a 1MB or a 2MB workbench and the systeme was able to >
recognize both
How do you format the 2M disk. Do you use any special switches with FORMAT?
Regards Charles
You do not have to use any special switches with the format command as it
automatically recognizes the drive type by the presence of the HD hole in
the diskette.
John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
John, what about the opposite… where you want to format a HD floppy as a
regular 880K floppy. I know it's not economical, but what the heck, I can
imagine cases where one might need to do so.
The MS-DOS Format command allows one to override the automatic formatting
of HD floppies with switches…. so you could format a HD floppy as a
regular one for instance. I used to have to do that at the office all the
time to remain compatible (we'd purchase only HD floppies, but use them on
all machines, regardless of drive type).
So, it would be nice to have the Amiga Format command be able to
'downshift' and format even HD floppies as regular, I think.
But what the heck, where can I get the drive in the first place? 🙂
–jp–seattle–
John,
What I do at the office on my IBM compatiable is use a piece of Scotch
tape over the HD hole. Its quick and easy…
Versia Hilliard
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In this case since the HARDWARE is actually making the decision on slowdown
and not the software, the only thing that you can do is to cover the hole
with tape. Since it is a mechanical check and not an optical check (at
least in my drive) scotch tape will work just fine. Actually, there is a
definite case where you need to do this trick – where you previously
formatted a HD diskette as 880K and then needed to read it in the new
drive. I have about half a dozen diskettes like that.
John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
Nothing special to do… only select format and it will look at your disk
to see if it is a 1MB or a 2MB floppy by itself
pat
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Make and model # of the drive? Good stuff you're posting. Thanks for
doing the detective work for us!
–jp–seattle–
No model number… the only thing we know is that it is a special Chinon
drive (OEM)
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Thanks anyway. I know you've heard this a dozen times by now, but if you
ever DO find out the part #, please let us know, ok? Thanks.
–jp–seattle–
What brand floppy drive?? (And model number please)
BEN:Leigh's Computer's
Pat:
What is the model number of the drive? I know the standard drive in a 2000
is a Chinon model, is there a replacment that is capable of HD operation?
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
I checked… my machine has that same old nasty 880k drive. Sigh.
My Amiga 3000 _needs_ a high density drive!
-mark=
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When did you buy your Amiga 3000!?
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Oh about 8-9 months ago.. I did not really expect my machine to have the
drive. Since I work at a dealership, I intend to take a look at our recent
A3000 inventory. In fact, we have an inquiry in with Commodore on this.
I will let you folks know more when I do.
-mark=
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Where is your dealership located!? Here we are in Quebec city, Canada.
Pat
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Video Computer Resources Chesapeake Virginia (804) 436-9508
-mark=
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Mark, I gotta check this out.
How do you know it is a 2MB floppy drive (besides failing to format a HD
floppy disk, that is)
JohnB 76256,3436 – via Whap!
I tried to format a 1.44 megabyte floppy… that is all I did.
-mark=
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You should see a "hole detector" on both side (left and right) of the drive
when you remove your A3000 cover.
Pat
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Thanks, Pat
I will open mine up & find out!
JohnB 76256,3436 – via Whap!
Rats!
I have a Rev 6.1 motherboard and Rev 4 daughterboard.
The drive has hole detector pins on the left side only.
I wonder if I order a A3010 if I will get a "2MB" floppy drive.
JohnB 76256,3436 – via Whap!
It is really inconceivable to me that the A3000 can use 2mb floppies. Are
you *SURE*? They *format* to 2mb, not 880K? (ie. an INFO command shows
2mb avail) And if so, is this 'approved' by Commodore/WB2.0?
Not that I don't believe you, but I'd hope others will verify this ASAP. If
so, then there is a 2mb floppy drive available for purchase, right? I
could certainly use one!
–jp–seattle–
Yes, the technology does exist. Since there appears to be at least one
such unit out there, I will tell you that it works by slowing down the
drive to half the speed. In this manner the custom chips are able to
handle the transfer rate of the larger amount of data stored on the track
(twice the amount in this case). It looks at the HD hole to decide when to
do this operation so… IF you have been using some HD diskettes and
formatted them on the normal drives and then attempt to read it on one of
these new technology drives you will not be able to do so. BTW, this will
certainly break any software out there that ASSUMED that a floppy was only
880K instead of querying the drive as it is supposed to.
John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
Well, WOW! Where can I get my hands on one of these things?
You say the software would break that assumed a floppy was only 880K. That
would be pretty rare, wouldn't it? Only things I can think of that would
absolutely assume the drive size might be diskette archiving programs and
backup programs…. ?
Like I said, where can I get one of them? 🙂
–jp–seattle–
Well, right off the bat you hit the big one – disk backup programs don't
know that they can now write twice as much to the drive… Since this is
one of the biggest wins in increase of disk storage it is the worst
programs to suffer from the problem.
As for availability, your guess is as good as mine.
John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
John:
I Assume that for a 2000 all that would be nessasary would be to get a
newer drive that can read/write the HD disks, and that trackdisk already
has the smarts to use it builtin? (in 2.04 that is) Do you know if there's
a drive that can replace the df0: in a 2000 with HD/DD capability?
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
YEP! Perfectly sure… INFO reveals 1759K in FFS and 16XX in SFS! and using
the shell I was able to put both WORKBENCH 1.3 and EXTRAS 1.3 on the same
disk. Even Quarterback uses them as 2MB disks: 14MB backup on 7 disks.
The speed isn't faster… 15k/sec read and about 12k/sec writing. (as of
DPERF2).
It is easy to see if you're formatting in HD… it takes twice as much time
as with 880k disks.
The selection is automatic… put a 2MB disk and the system formats it in
2MB… put a 1MB disk and you get the usual format.
more infos to come…
– via Whap!
Well, that's amazing! I still find it inconceivable that Commodore would
'hide' a feature like that. I'd have said that high density floppies was
VERY HIGH on the most requested features list for the amiga for years
now…. (right behind better graphics). To release it and not announce
it…. ???
Given Commodores sterling marketing reputation, I find it amazing! 🙂
–jp–seattle–
One of the funniest thing is that our C= representatice tells us that he
has a letter from the head office in Toronto telling that the A3000 tower
WILL NOT come with a 2MB floppy as claimed in some early magazines
reviews!!!!
Pat
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Who is your C= Rep?
Claude? Charles? Gilles? ??
Jim
Sorry, but I can not be that specific… how come you know these names!?
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Pat…
I used to work for CBM Canada. I was a product support rep. here in
Ottawa, in the local office. I know all of the CBM Canada employees pretty
well, although there are one or two new faces I ran into at World of
Commodore this weekend. It's an ever shrinking company! 🙂
Jim
Do you remember the Amiga Action Team!? I was one of them! What a nice time
we had!!
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