ProPage 4.0?
40 messages in this thread
Hey,
Where is the Gold Disk representative? What's the deal on ProPage 4.0?
What is the upgrade path for a 3.0 user?
Rodger
Rodger,
Gold Disk's representative, Philip Laitar's User ID is 75300,3433. You
might consider sending him a Compuserve Mail message with receipt
requested if you want to make certain that he sees the message.
Otherwise, the message may scroll off before he has a chance to read it
here.
David
Rodger,
PPage 4.0 is scheduled for very late December.
A complete new feature list is not available just yet, but most reg. users
should be receiving Upgrade notices within the next few weeks.
In brief, users who purchased PPage 3.0 from December 1st, 1992 will
receive it free of charge (you must be able to supply a sales receipt).
Users who have PPage 3.0 from befor Dec. 1st, 1992 will be able to upgrade
for $75 ($US).
Philip Laitar
Manager
"…In brief, users who purchased PPage 3.0 from December 1st, 1992 will
receive it free of charge (you must be able to supply a sales receipt)…"
Philip,
I purchased my 3.0 upgrade directly from Gold Disk via VISA chargecard.
Will I need to produce the charge slip or can I expect to simply receive
the upgrade in the mail without taking any action?
Thanks,
Chris
Chris,
If you bought PPage 3.0 in December and directly the upgrade should be sent
automatically.
I had talked to the order desk and was told that I had to have bought
a first time copy of 3.0 to be eligible for the free 4.0 upgrade. Any
upgrade to 3.0 from an earlier revision will require another $75 fee
to get the 4.0 version. Since I purchased my upgrade in early June
(received it later that month) it has only been aprox. 5 months since
I received it. Do you think there will be some sort of offer to
accomdate these more recent upgrades to 3.0? It seems that the 4.0
upgrade is coming just on the heels of 3.0 and although there are
some very new features in it, it seems that 3.0 was released a bit
too soon. Hmmm…maybe there will be another special offer for us 3.0
upgrade users?
Chris,
There has been a small change to the upgrade price (posted in another
message here) but unfortunately it will not apply to you or others who
purchased the upgrade before Sept 1/92.
Please remember that PPage 3.0 has been available since late February/92
and many users have had the opportunity to use ppage for over 10 months.
Also, the PPage 4.0 update is just not an A4000 fix…it incorporates a
number of major feature changes and additions.
Philip Laitar
Manager
Well, Philip,
Then if that is the policy. What is policy for the buggy version of 3.0
that I've been using since only July. I'm referring to the QUIT bug! I've
called it in several times and nothing has been done about it. Is there
going to be a maintenence upgrade for 3.0 or will I be forced to spend
another $75 to find out if it was fixed in 4.0? There are a lot of other
users of 3.0 that have encountered the QUIT BUG and it has occurred at
most inappropriate times (when is a bug considered appropriate?) I'd be
willing to pay the $25 US to find out but not $75. I have upgraded this
program continuously since first purchasing it. I'd hate to stop now, but
I feel that Gold Disk should take into consideration the fact that 3.0 has
crashed on me and others and has not been fixed, now we'll be left with a
buggy version if we don't upgrade again, I feel like I'm being forced into
a wall here. Either cough up more money or use the buggy version we're
abandoning.
I invite any other PPage 3.0 user who has encountered this bug to again
mention it here in this thread.
Thanks for listening,
Chris
Chris,
Thanks for the invitation! 8^) I too have encountered numerous
recoverable alerts upon exiting PPage 3.0. I regret the fact that Gold
Disk did not release a maintenance update that fixed the problem. They
should have done so.
At this point I haven't yet decided whether or not to upgrade to 4.0. I
guess I'll wait 'til I get more detailed info on 4.0's new and enhanced
features.
-Dave (via AutoPilot)
David,
Did you ever report your troubles with PPage 3.0 to GD? Maybe we've become
too complacent about it, apparently after telling I told them a few times
and then tried living with it, they've decided to ignore the bug and
proceed with the next version. So instead of being taken care of we're
going to get taken for another $75, I was always told, "the squeaky wheel
gets the grease", let's hope it isn't too late before the bearing seizes
up completely! Time to start calling Tech support and complaining about
this GD bug!
SQUEAKING, squeak, squeak, squeak….
Chris
Chris,
I mentioned the PPage problem here shortly after I installed 3.0. At
first Malcolm O'Brien (not a Gold Disk rep exactly…he's the fellow who
wrote the 3.0 manual supplement) thought it might be an installation
problem. For awhile I thought the same, since I'd had other problems that
*were* caused by misplaced files. After a few weeks GD acknowledged that
it was a bug…but they never said anything more about it. I never called
GD directly since, as I've said, for me the problem has been an annoyance
rather than a hinderance…it's never interfered with my work. I really
like PPage 3.0, but I guess I've also been too complacent about getting GD
to fix it.
-Dave (via AutoPilot)
David,
I think our complacency has cost us in the long run. Now we're not going
to get the bug fixed plus any of us who have updated prior to Aug 31, 1992
are going to get soaked $75 to see if the bug has been squashed. I intend
to report the bug again to GD and I urge you and anyone else who has
'lived' with this irritant to make another call to GD. At the least leave
Philip a direct message besides your comments to me in this thread, just
to be sure he reads them. We should at least be given the minimum upgrade
charge, not the maximum.
Chris
Dave,
I've not had the Quit problem. I AM using the release version now too.
Malcolm
I encounter it all the time, but I'm used to it, actually. (It is, after
all, a "quit" bug.) Overall, Gold Disk has always been good to me. I'm
an enthusiastic user of both PP and PgStr – leaning a bit toward PgStr, at
the moment. But, you have to admit the Font Manager is a terrific asset,
and that genie capacity is great! Also, PP will print 5.5 x 8.5 pages two
up, which PgStr won't do at the moment. My one disadvantage to using
both, depending on the project, is that I am not as expert in either one
as I would be if I were using it exclusively…..Nancy
Nancy,
If you encounter it all the time, have you reported as well? Yes, GD
has been good to me also, but this time they've apparently ignored the
problem. We should at least get a maintenence upgrade if not the 4.0
version at a more modest reasonable cost.
It is time to report the bug again if you haven't called them in a
while, time to start Squeaking that wheel, we need it fixed, pass us the
grease please.
Chris
Leaving the message re the quit bug was my way of squeeking the wheel.
Gold Disk monitors this forum just about every weekday. We'll get
acknowledgment, if not results.
Actually, with 8 meg on board, the first time I encounted the bug I was
merely suprised. After it became a habit, I just made sure I didn't have
anything crucial going on when I was about to shut it down. It's more
than a quit bug actually. It will appear if I load in too many graphics.
I've monitored the chip memory a few times and tried to duplicate the
problem, with some success. The problem does not seem to be a memory
overflow, because there's always quite a bit left. And, of course, RAM is
not a problem. But then here comes that "recoverable" (hah! alert. What
a nuisance. I've been trying to print a fairly (but not excessively)
graphics intensive project 2 up on an HP laser, but frustration is setting
in. I'll probably finish the project in PageStream.
…..Nancy
Nancy,
-> PP will print 5.5 x 8.5 pages two up
Can you explain that statement? That's the size I used for my last project
and I did it with 8.5 x 11 pages with rotated boxes working top to bottom
instead of left to right, getting confused about which page was next. Was
I doing it the hard way?
Malcolm
Re – PP will print 5.5 x 8.5 pages two up (on an HP Laser)
Just create your page in the standard way, use landscape printing, and
turn your paperfeed off (in PP). Then, manually eject the sheet when the
pair of pages has finished printing. You will find them side by side.
BTW, I have switched to PgStr for this project. Even though PP WILL print
two up, getting the boxes spaced properly on the page is such a pain in
the neck with PP that I have decided it isn't worth the trouble. Plus –
and this was probably the deciding factor – the current edition of PP does
not manage memory all that well. I'm using high resolution borders on
these pages, and PP has to be COAXED to hold them in memory. (I kept
getting the "recoverable alert" message. I finally opted to print the
pages in double columns on landscaped sheets in PgStr. MUCH better print
spacing, and MUCH less hassle…..Nancy
Nancy,
Hmm… I was using a junk 9-pin to proof and a PS laser for final. I would
still need to do them in a strange order (first page is OFC and OBC, etc.)
but it would be a big improvement doing them right side up. Thanks for the
tip. I actually did start out with them right side up and printing
landscape but didn't get the results I was looking for on the 9-pin; i.e.
didn't match up with perfs. I'll have to change the file and put on my
thinking cap.
Malcolm
Chris,
I use PPage 3 everyday for business and I'm not at all sure what Quit bug
you mean. Is it literally to do with Quitting the program? If so then I
have to say PPage has never crashed under those circumstances.
On an A3000 with 2mb chip and 4 mb ram ordinaire.
Pete from Dorset in Englands West Country – via Whap!
Pete,
Yes, it happens on QUITting the program. Usually, it is a Yellow Alert
Screen that informs you it is a recoverable alert and clicking the left
mouse button will start the recovery. Well, usually I click on it a
half-dozen times or more (it switches screens back to PPAGE and then back
to the Alert screen during this process) and finally I'll get the RED
UNRECOVERABLE Alert Screen, or if I give up trying to "recover" and
reboot, I'll then get the red screen. It doesn't happen all the time, in
the beginning it happened more frequently. Now it happens at very
inappropriate times, I just don't quit if I have other work in process. I
thought it was a problem with having POST and using my CLtd laser printer.
But even when I don't use them it happens from time to time. I did call GD
a few times and was told they couldn't duplicate it but were aware of
other users having a similar problem. Then I've heard no more, and now
find version 4.0 waiting in the wings, no fix for my 3.0 problem and it is
going to now cost me $75 more to see if the BUG has been squashed this
time! I don't think it's fair.
Chris
Chris,
I reckon you maybe low on chip memory cos Superbase does the same thing
under the same circumstances. How much chip mem do you have? I've got 2mb
in my 3000 and havn't suffered with yellow alerts unless there are several
large progs running in the background.
Pete from Dorset in Englands West Country – via Whap!
Pete,
I have 2MB of chip memory in my A2000 along with the ECS chipset.
Sometimes I get the yellow alert without running anything BUT PPage3.0.
Oh, here is an interesting aside. I reinstalled PPage a couple days ago.
Since most of the icons have the 1.3 Workbench look I was dragging each
icon individually into the 2.0 ICON Editor, selecting recolor and save.
Well, when I clicked onto the UPdateCGFonts icon it first briefly turned
blue before becoming black as I continued to click down on and drag it
into the editor's window. Once released onto the window the program loaded
it in and I selected the Recolor menu choice via the keyboard equivalent
[Rght Amiga] [M] and suddenly I got a RED Recoverable ALert that wouldn't
recover. I rebooted and repeated the same thing about five times. It
appears that this icon has an extra color in it or something, for it first
changes blue before becoming black when it is first selected. I changed my
palette to eight colors and tried again, but it still crashed the machine.
I did notice that the icon for the CGFonts Update progam in PDraw 3.x is
different all together in its design from the one supplied with PPage 3.0
and this icon works fine in the icon editor. Strange huh? Maybe you could
see if the icon you received on you disk can be edited.
Chris
I'm curious about something. I keep seeing Gold Disk's name coming up
in reference to PC multimedia products, and thought GD at least
started up as an Amiga-only publisher.
Developing software for other platforms doesn't tarnish GD's Amiga
image in my view, but I'm curious if there is an increased emphasis
on IBM-compatible multimedia and if so, if this is a trend that is
expected to continue. How does Amiga development compare in priority
to the IBM development? Is GD committed to continuing to develop for
the Amiga in the future?
I'm not trying to start any rumors, I just want to know how far GD is
going for the mainstream market, and other corporate examples (EA for
one) tend to worry me whenever I see a company move into what some
consider a more lucrative platform.
I can understand your concerns. I can not answer specifics, our
company is privately held and much information is internal only. I
can say, that our commitment to the Amiga is as strong as ever. We
just released an update to Office, a fully overhauled PageSetter 3,
PPage 4.0 by the end of the month, ProCalc is is still in
developement and some new projects are in the works for next year. In
the last year we developed VideoDirector, ProCalc, PPage 3.0 and
PDraw 3.0. As long has there is a market for the Amiga, Gold Disk
will be there!
Philip,
I see you logged on and replied to some messages but haven't answered the
64 dollar question. Will recent 3.0 upgraded users have to pay again for
the 4.0 upgrade? Especially the ones who keep getting RED and YELLOW ALERT
screens and unexplained crashes on QUITting PPage 3.0, have called Tech
support nth times and asked what to do, and have yet to gotten a bug fix
for it?
Waiting but not yet holding breath,
Chris
Chris,
How about posting some details of your system configuration and your
error (flashing RED and YELLOW ALERT screens,) possibly some one else may
have had the problem and know the cure.
I like many opther PPage users do not have any problems with 3.0. I
regularly process a 1.2meg file (60 pages, 100 or so graphics, Hundreds of
boxes, auto index Created by linked boxes) etc. etc. without problems.
This is on a B2000 with a GPV 030, WB2.1 etc.. Is it possible you have
some sort of corrupted file or does it occur on all attempts?
regards leonard.
Leonard,
For me it happens sporadically. Sometimes I get the yellow error alert on
Quitting with only a single page layout in use. Other times just running
and quitting the program with no page defined but a blank will bring up
the yellow alert. These yellow recoverable alerts never really recover. I
follow the instruction, click the mouse button, the screen flashes and
returns again and again, finally it does go away but the red alert
replaces it. Other times I can have a multi-page spread loaded, finish up
and save it, and quit without no problem, then the next time I load the
same file and quit I'll get the yellow/red alerts. I have come to an
understanding with PPage 3.0, always save ALL work from ALL programs in
use before QUITting PPage, and be ready to reboot after using it.
Like I said before, Gold Disk is aware there is a bug that occurs on QUIT.
They can't find it I was told. But now it seems to find out if it has been
fixed I must again pay $75 for an update. <sigh> Usually when a bug is
reported, the user at least gets a maintenence upgrade when the fix is
made. If the program is updated by a newer version some concessions should
be considered by the company.
I have a B2000 rev 4.3 motherboard, WB 2.04 and now WB 2.1, ECS chipset,
MegaChip board, 2MB chip memory 4MB 16bit memory, 4MB 32 bit memory, 68030
33MHz GVP 3001
accelerator, Series II controller with a 100MB Conners CP-3100 internal,
two Syquest 44MB internal/external, Wangtek 5150ES, Seagate 80MB external,
and PRIAM ST-506 100MB 5.25 full-height on KRONOS host/controller. SCSI
laser printer and scanner on KRONOS. I use AMAXII 2.51 with cartridge, MAC
external floppy and use the Seagate and the two Syquests.
Chris
Chris,
Your problem is a bit of a worry. Like I said earlier up to now I have
never experienced the problem you have reported and my configuration is in
a lot of ways similar to yours. I have a B2000, rev 4.4 motheboard, WB2.04
(not 2.1 as I said earlier), a GPV 33mHZ board, 4 meg 32bit, 4meg 16bit on
a Microbotics 8up board, two SCSI drives and 1 ST506, a HP IIIp laserjet
etc..
I guess you don't have any other programs that have similar problems which
would indicate some problem with the hardware configuration. Previously I
have anither Disk controllerwhich just would not work in my machine. All
sorts of programs would fail for no apparent reason at random times when
accessing the attached drives. One drive was replaced, same problem. When
I replaced the controller card the problems went away as well. All very
strange. Have GD indicated at all what the problem may be?
Do you have a file that you could upload and someone else try (of course
it would need to be one at always fails!)
My program is 556560bytes and has the following information is it (search
Version) Version 3, THU Dec 13 20:48:56 1990. Is yours the same or are
there multiple versions of the so called version 3?
Regards Leonard.
Leonard,
Sounds like we have similar systems. No I don't have any problems with
other programs, nor did I have a problem with PPage 2.0. The yellow alerts
did not start until after installing the 3.0 upgrade. My Rev 4.3 MB had
the one mod done to it for the keyboard, a capacitor had to be clipped
from the motherboard. I'll see if I can find a file for you to try.
Earlier this month my 100MB Conners drive went south, taking with it all
my favorite programs. Of course, I have it backed up, but in the meantime
I'm missing a ton of PSFONTS, PPage, PDRaw, Pagestream, and others. I'm
getting another Syquest cartridge to put reinstall the page programs but a
lot of files are going to have to wait on the tape for the replacement
internal drive. <sigh>
Chris
Chris,
The repeating not-so-recoverable alert happened to me last week on a small
page layout. I don't recall what else was running at the time, but I'm
running PPage on pretty much a stock (un-accelerated) B2000HD with 7 Meg
of memory. (Don't you feel sorry for me, having to be so patient waiting
for PPage to do its thing? 🙂
I would also like to see a less expensive upgrade path, having spent
something like $80 on the 3.0 upgrade only last March. I guess this
package is getting more "professional" than I care to be, since the
original low cost has been more than doubled by "creeping" upgrade costs.
I'm sure I've spent over $300 on the package (original cost + upgrades).
I had bought the package in the first place having seen a demo of the
program with a powerful ARexx interface at an AmiExpo, and only then found
I had to buy the 3.0 upgrade to get it!
*** jd, using AP from LA, CA!
Leonard,
Like Chris I sporadically run into recoverable alerts upon quitting PPage
3.0. Unlike Chris, PPage has never crashed on me…I find the problem
more of an annoyance than a hinderance. Still, it should've been dealt
with some time ago. If I remember right, the bug has something to do with
ARexx and/or the use of Genies (which are, in essence, ARexx scripts).
Note that ARexx is in no way to blame…the problem is with PPage.
I know some people who have the problem and some who don't. Their systems
and configurations vary all over the place, so I've never really tried to
get to the bottom of it.
-Dave (via AutoPilot)
David,
This sounds like an interesting problem. As I said to Chris I have not
experienced the problem AT ALL! I do use Genies all the time, both those
supplied by GD and my own, again without problems.
Any problem such as this is just that, a problem, and I agree it should
be fixed. Lets hope that it has been with the new release and for those
who went to the trouble of reporting the problem to Gold Disk, lets hope
they give them some for of discount/rebate on the upgrade. It would be
nice.
regards Leonard.
Leonard,
Yes, it is an interesting problem. Like I said, I know PPage users who
have experienced it and others who haven't. Doesn't seem to be any rhyme
or reason to it, although I'm sure there must be. When I get my A1200
I'll try PPage out on that machine and see what happens.
I also think a rebate on the upgrade would be nice. 8^)
-Dave (via AutoPilot)
Chris,
With the number of changes that have gone into PPage 4.0, it will be
unlikely that we will be able to offer it as a 'bug fix'.
I have discussed the problem with other departmental managers and the
possibility of creating a PPage 3.x fix will be evaluated.
There is not estimated release at this time but it will not be before the
new year.
I will keep you posted on the development.
Philip Laitar
Manager
Philip,
GD's PPage 4.0 upgrade mentions all the things that were added as being
added because the users asked for it. I personally feel there is one
thing I KNOW most users want in ProPage and ProDraw that GD apparantly
will NEVER give the users; and that is EXPORT in all the formats that
PPage and PDraw import. I know GD seems to think that this is protecting
their market but in fact it is not. Remember, probablythe second most
extraordinary thing about Amigas behind multi-tasking in 512K is common
file formats for data portability among differtne applications. Third
party packages have extended that to conversion of Amiga file formats to
other platforms. In this area GD is backward. It prevents you from
bringing home your Aldus stuff from work, finishing it up in ProPage and
then bringing it back to work for final review/revision in electronic
format. Or worse yet, from using the Amiga in a similar vein on a
network.
Note that your competitors in the Lower 48 don't hog-tie their users like
that. If Art Expression is a reasonable functional equivalent of ProDraw,
and SL does an aggressive "power-up" on a combined PageStream/AE for
ProDraw/ProPage they could really hurt Gold Disk in the Amiga market – big
time. And the main driver will be the inability to export from
PPage/PDraw to bitmaps TIFF, PCX, DR2D, BMP, various EPS and PS… yo know
– all the ones you import.
wmc – via Autopilot!
Wayne,
Conversion of Amiga file formats to other platforms? Which packages are
those? This is a particularly keen interest of mine.
Malcolm
Malcolm,
my understanding is that PageStream/ArtExpression will import and export
its files in TIFF, BMP, a version of Adobe Illustrator EPS, ArtExpression
EPS, PostScript, IFF DR2D, and can import ProDraw Clips. They claime more
to come.
In thegraphics world there is ADPro, and ImageMaster on the Amiga side and
Hijack on the PC side.
wmc – via Autopilot!
Philip
I too have PPage 3.0 and will be looking seriously at the upgrade as soon
as I get some official information. However I too would like to see some
better (ie. cheaper) upgrade path for those of us who have taken every
upgrade so far. How about some for of subscription with automatic despatch
of upgrades! How about a sliding scale, $75 if first upgrade, $55 is
second, $45 if third!
Anyway as soon as possible can you post some "official" or semi official
list of changes etc. just to wet our appertites?
Regards Leonard.
Philip,
Put me down for PPage 4.0 please. The sales office will have my credit card
number.
Pete Pete from Dorset in Englands West Country – via Whap!