#Morphed Letters
23 messages in this thread
Is this an old topic for you? I'm not sure what you meant by your last
comment '3DS – I don't see why things are done the way they are'.
Are you unhappy with the interface?
Sorry if this is a topic you've already covered. I'm just curious and
extremely interested. (Being the manager of a usability lab, that is.)
Jamie
Jamie, I am so troubled by the interface that I rang from Australia to
discuss it. I have real problems orientating and scaling in 3ds. I'd like
a three-dimensional grid that I can 'stand' outside so I know what's going
on. I'm never really sure whether functions are available under other
names, or not available. for example, I build up an object from component
parts. Can I "group" that object so that all my actions are relative to
all components (with due consideration of materials of course). Grouping
being different from selecting. A group in my drawing package stays a
group until I ungroup it, even over multiple sessions.
Frankly, I think 3DS is unnecessarily messianic and elitist. You can see
from forum comments that there is a body of users who want to keep it
difficult, me I just want to get the job done.
ALi
Ali:
With an additude like that, it's no wonder that the program doesn't like
you!
Grouping in 3D Studio is called LINKING. There are a few tutorial
exercises covering this, as well as a section of the manual.
"3DS is unnecessarily messianic and elitist"? That is one of the most
elitist comments ever made on this board! It sounds like "Just because I
won't read the manual and go through the tutorials, the program is too
difficult and isn't worthy of the magnetic media that it comes on."
Hogwash! 3DS is one of the easiest 3D animation programs to learn, bar
none! You need to create surfaced objects, color and texturize them, add
lights and cameras, move them around, have it render to disk and tape, and
you want this all to be done with only 2 commands that also read your mind
and make coffee for you while it installs itself on your computer and costs
only $50!
Try using a spreadsheet program without reading the manuals! That is HARD!
3DS isn't perfect, but it is the closest I have ever seen in any price
range. I chose to vote with my pocketbook for my software. If you can't
figure it out, either go get yourself some training (someone to spoon-feed
the tutorial to you) or read it yourself!
Your other option, of course, is to vote your pocketbook and get something
you think is better. I DARE you to try Wavefront or Alias without training
or a manual! And after you have invested many, many tens of thousands of
dollars more than you spent on 3D Studio, get on CompuServe and type 'GO
WAVE' or "GO ALIAS' and complain there. Oh, what's that you say? There is
no Wavefront or Alias forums on CIS? You actually have to call them to
complain and get support? Try asking anyone for help on anything with that
tone and see how far you get.
Greg (not so elitist, but I can read) Pyros
YEA, Graig.
Here, here. If there is an easier way to do all the things that 3ds does
(other than my wishlist requests) I can't think of it. Even advanced
Windows applications are "hard" to pick-up without doing the tutorials and
that's supposed to be intuitive. When anybody asks me how to go about
learning 3ds and/or giving them tutoring I always say to do the tutorials
first then come and see me – they are free and included, as apposed to my
tuition <g>.
What would really change the impression of overly complex menus that 3DS
gives to a first time user would be to put the menus in the horizontal menu
bar area and use hierarchical submenus like on the Mac and Windows. Also a
simple Help system that lists the menu names for different tasks would be
an enormous aid to understanding. I think to keep the program compliant
with Autocad the menus ended up as they are.
Since a program is not a living thing, it seems to me it would be difficult
for it to be "messianic" or "elitist". So I sort of took Ali's statement as
one of frustration with learning it. Of course the Yost team is remarkable
and who knows, maybe the next rev of 3DS will have built in preaching <g>.
The problem with this thread is that it is decomposing into a series of
flames. And the statements that start the flame are flames themselves.
Flames don't put out flames, they just make understanding worse. It would
be better to try and address the frustration then attacking back or being
defensive. Of course you can type anything your little fingers desire, its
still a free country.
I have learned on this net that it is really important not to make sweeping
statements, such as "3DS is messianic" or "3DS is one of the easiest 3D
animation programs to learn, bar none!" Those are vague and subjective, and
don't help.
I think what is trying to be said here is that like any large and complex
program there are flaws, expecially for new users. Flaws can be fixed, and
they don't mean that the program is bad, or that it should be perfect.
Mitch
Something simple that would help you and and me, and people that have a
hard time remembering what name on the menu performs what function in 3DS,
would be a list of the most important and often used functions, and next to
each function the name of the menu item and the path to it. Like How Do I
Set the Map for a Texture: Surface/Mapping/Adjust. It would be important to
make the list short and just cover the names of menus that are vague or
slightly contradictory; eg is it Unattach or is it Detach. Does that make
sense?
Mitch
PS I wonder if a simple on line help system with just such a list would
greatly lower this menu name hunting syndrome?
I'd like to see cross-referencing of terminology, on-line assistance
(especially with references to the page numbers in the
manual/tutorial/etc). And the whole set file accessible from the menus,
with an option "Session, Project, System Default". And examples of
config.sys and autoexec.bat files, not just odd lines. You know. If you
have 4Mb memory on an Autodesk only machine/16Mb etc. If you use Windows
on that machine. I have to change my config.sys every time I want to run
Mannequin. I have sent my files to Autodesk for help (as requested) but
have had no reply. (sigh).
And a default mapping so that surfaces are mapped and you can adjust the
orientation later. If you look at the CDROM of samples, and asked
yourself, "What is so interesting about this flic?", would you be able to
go to the index of the reference manual or the tutorial and find out how to
reproduce it?
What astounds me is a AV media product issued with paper-based
instructions. 3DS with a CDROM of multimedia help.
ALi
I doubt ANYONE is trying to keep 3D Studio elitist, it just happens that
with any powerful software that can be used to make $$, some people will be
reluctant to share their tricks. That may come accross as being elitist,
but that's the biz, not the design of our software.
It's important for us (Autodesk/Yost) to get software design wishes from
ALL customers. Your need for more 'groups' is on the wishlist for 3DS 3.0.
Only time will tell if that makes it in, but I'm an advocate for it.
RE: Editing Functions – With a program like 3D Studio, (as you're aware)
you have so many options, you can often find multiple ways to get the same
job done. Perhaps you don't want that? I know some people prefer only one
solution to their problems, not a choice.
If you can offer suggestions that can improve the way you work with 3D
Studio, please do so. In example, how would you like this 3D Grid/View to
work? Can you give us an example of any other software that does it the way
you want so we can get a clearer idea?
It's important that you give us something to go on, work with us. Don't
just grumble with discontent. There must have been some reason you decided
to purchase 3D Studio.
Thanks,
Jamie
Jamie,
Here are a coupla things I find myself wanting when using 3DS. Granted,
they come from Windows applications, but what the heck.
1. Whether it's force of habit, or because I'm still learning, I keep
hitting F1 when I need help. Believe me, I hit it a lot! 😉
2. I like those smart icon palettes. For example, you're editing
something and it brings up a palette of editor icons. Switch to drawing in
a frame brings up another.
3. I like being able to create a smart icon or keyboard macro that
automates a frequently-used procedure. I find myself doing a lot of mouse
clicking in 3DS, though in most cases it's pretty much limited to 3 or 4
clicks – like modify-object-move.
FWIW, Eli.
I'm a long-time beta tester. Wishlists are my life. I am trying to free
up enough time to seriously analyse the interface problems I am having and
how the relationship between drawing the storyboard and creating the 3D
scenes.
I have phone numbers written in my manual. Is 332-2344 a fax number, or
someone's number? I don't think I could create what I envisage in 3DS, but
I could draw it.
ALi
Oh, I didn't buy 3DS. I did plan my computer system with animation in
mind. I reviewed 3DS etc. I have 2 copies of Animator, 2 of Ani Pro, and
1 of 3DS. (From two separate magazine reviews). I had six weeks to review
all the packages in my feature (8 I think). What I am trying to do is
become familiar with 3DS so that I can review 3DS r3 with a more informed
(and demanding) point of view. There is a big difference between reviewing
from a disinterested journalist standpoint and reviewing as a regular user
of that technology. I have a requirement for creating presentations on a
regular basis. And AV has long been a sideline for me. I want to be able
to get in, use the sucker and get out.
ALi
I'm curious….Which other 3D programs do you use?
Steve
Mannequin. ALi
How long have you used Mannequin? Did you write a review on that?
Steve
I reviewed Mannequin twice. Once as part of a feature on animation that
was uploaded to this forum. I've had it well over a year. I don't use it a
lot because it needs a memory manager, and when I run that I can't run Ani
Pro or 3DS.
I would like to be able to export recordings in 3DS format rather than PCX
which is all that's available at the moment. There are lots of memory
compatibility programs. I found FIVE separate version incompatibilities
(QEMM, Turbo EMS and so on). I like the way one uses slides to rotate
objects on the X, Y and Z axis.
ALi
Um….so how much 3D experience do you have? Sorry if I'm mistaken about
your 3D experience, and no offense intended, but I'm wondering why you are
reviewing a product like 3DS when it seems that you haven't used many 3D
programs, or have a background in 3D.
Steve
I wrote a feature on Animation for a mainstream computer magazine. I
interviewed existing users and Autodesk staffers about issues as well as
trying the product for myself. I have created cel animations in the past
and had some experience with Animation software, including Autodesks.
Perhaps after you have read the most recent article we would resume the
discussion?
ALi
I have one simple suggestion. Make a key initiates the function of right
clicking on the extents icon to redraw the windows with the objects
properly oriented. I am constantly moving the mouse out of the area I am
working to get to that icon and it would be a lot easier to press Alt E or
something like that.
Try CTRL-Z (zoom extents).
– G