#Fast Video Machine
9 messages in this thread
Do you have a fast Video Machine? What didn't you like about it? I
see they have a non-linear board addition coming on early in '94. I
saw the board at the show. Their software is still in development. I
think they will be the low end of the stick in non-linear price wise.
I didn't like the programmers in Germany. As far as I can tell, they
are a bunch of arrogants who think they know it all and the rest of
the world is junk. It's got nothing to do with the machine itself as
it is pretty decent.
Their non liner thing should be out first of the year. It will cost
around $6k each (you will need 3 in order to do non linear editing).
That's 18k in hardware alone. Plus whatever price SCSI-II hard disk
you put in there (times 3), the Video machine itself (4k). That's $
30,000.00 in my book.
P.S. I left this message a while ago and I never got a reply. How come
all of the sudden I get two replies?
I haven't looked closely at the cost of the Video Machine but thought it was
much less. ie $5800 for the box and internal card. I don't understand where
the x3 comes into play. They didn't have a price on the 2nd board for
non-linear editing but I did see it and it was capable of holding lots of RAM
(SIMMS) It looked like it would hold 8. Anyway, non-linear is about a year
away for me to consider so I have only a passive interest at this time.
PMJI, but if you're looking at off-line non-linear, I'd suggest you check out
D/Vision. I just built one for my self and am extremly happy with it.
Hey, what else can you say about this D/Vision thing. How does the software
stands? How many decks does it support?
Gus,
>> Hey, what else can you say about this D/Vision thing. How does the software
>> stands? How many decks does it support?
First off, let me clarify that D/Vision is not an on-line system. The best
video quality you'll get out of it is betwen VHS to 3/4 – more like 3/4, but
looking closly, you can see the artifacts. So for demonstartion and industrial
uses, it suffices. For broadcaset – it's nowhere near. But then it was built as
an off-line non-linear editing system, so the video stuff is icying on the
cake,
As far as controling decks, the current software can use Sony's V box to
control L and S control decks, and an Arti-box, which controls most RS – 232
decks. Unfortunetly, neither control is frame accurate, but one-frame accuracy
is unnessesery in how D/Vision works. The software upgrade in January will link
up to V-LAN, I was told.
Where D/Vision excels is in simple, inexpensive, but professional non-linear
editing. Avid, Lightworks, MediaVision, EMC, and others have more bells and
whistles, but then you certainly pay through the nose for them. In D/Vision,
one digitizes video and time code, then edits it. When you have a completed EDL
( edit dicsion (SP) list), D/Vision creates apprpiae EDL's for CMX,
GrassValley and other on-line controlers, with which you make your real cut.
For demonstartion or industrial use, D/Vision can use it's own EDL to
automatically redigitize all nessessery footage at the highest resolution and
assemble it into a finished product.
Editing on it is a breeze. The DOS screens are kind of clunky, but the proccess
is very intuative and quick to learn. For example, you have a Source Cataloge,
a screen that displays 12 shots. With mouse you can point at any shot and make
it play instantatly. The middle button on your mouse/trackball turns record on
and off – so the basics of editing is point, click, point, click, point,
click…. etc – that simple.
The on-line EDL's are a curious thing. I've heard people rave about their
accuracy, to people foam at the mouth in anger at mistakes. The Post House and
Edital both say that D/Vision's EDL's are more among the most solid in the
industry (better than Avid's). (The Post House, by the way, calls D/Vision "the
Movieola of the 90's"). My experience in cutting two commericals wen like this.
During the D2 on-line for the first commercial, I looked at the D/Vision EDL
and all the edits where off by a couple of frames, extra frames where thrown,
and alll Audio and Video edits where split. I freaked, dump the EDL, and cut
the commerical on-line from memory. Afterwards, I went home, screamed at
D/Vision support and wracked my brain to figure out what happened. The truth
was, all most all of the mistakes were mine. D/Vision has problems in spliting
Audio and Video tracks, but then that only causes extra passes in recording and
doesn't effect the finsihed product. Their D2 PREREAD command was AX instead of
AUX, but any on-line editor can quickly fix that. My mistakes were in
unknowingly mixing drop and non-drop source tapes, which D/Vision compensated
for by inserting extra frames when nessessery; expecting effect cuts to center
in the middle of the effect instead of handle the whole effect as a seperate
edit; etc. In other words, grabage in, garbage out – know what your putting
into the system, know how to read what it pops out and D/Vision will give you
an accurate EDL. With this in mind, my second on-;ine session went flawlessly.
D/Vision's software is pretty stable. It occasionally crashes or locks up in
Record mode, but as long you save your work periodically, you'll be fine. My
experinces with their product support have gone for exceptional to abysmal, but
they do have a support Section in the Ultimedia Forum. From what other users
tell me, they're pretty responsive in fixing major bugs and adding features
most users want.
The costs involved are:
Software: $4,000
DVI baord $2,000 for video/sound capture and play back
SMPTE reader $ 700 for the bext one – Telcom 102
Video monitor $1,000 or you can use a home TV with S-Vidio
Base computer $4,000 with Adaptec 1542c, 16 RAM, 2.9G SCSI
(4 RAM and iG minimum)
Misc $300 cables and stuff.
_______
$12,000
Or you can buy a turn-key system from a dealer for about $15,000. It's much
cheaper to build it yourself and not that hard.
Over all, I'm extremly please with D/Vision. There are problems – like they
need to get a windows interface!!!! – but nobody's perfect. The bottom line is
_it_works_! Works well and works cheaply. Also, when I don't use it, I rent it
to other people, and since the system was so cheap to build, it has almost paid
for itself in two months. (Try to beat that with an Avid or Lightworks!)
Hope this helps. If you have any other questions – fire away.
Martin
P.S. please excuse my typo's and terrible spelling. I'm lost without a word
proccessor.
That was the most amusing reply I ever got! <g> What you just described was a
case of love and hate. All embroiled together. That, unlike most people, made
me really want to take a closer look at this system.
What I'm looking for is something like what you just described but also able to
mix MIDI controls. I would do anything for a system I could plug my own modules
if the system doesn't support something. Something like 3D Studio IPAS. I have
the FAST video machine, which appears to be somewhat more sophisticated than
this system but it's a black box. Tech support is non existent and when you get
to talk to them, they don't understand English. It works great provided you
have the "approved" equipment. Anything different won't work as you won't find
drivers. The weirdest thing of all is that the software is all Windows but they
don't use _any_ windows facilities. Every driver is proprietary and no one has
access to it.
I got all kinds of junk to hook up. All the way from SONY L/S control, RS232
decks, 422, SCSI, MIDI, and even stuff I've written (which means I'm the only
one who could possibly write drivers for).
So, the software alone costs $4,000? For that kind of money, I may eventually
write my own off-line editor. Assuming I can find some time off which is as
crazy as the idea of paying off the budget deficit with more taxes…
Love/Hate for D/Vision….. absolutely. You've hit it on the dot. But at least
I have to say that it's more far more love than hate.
>> I have the FAST video machine, which appears to be somewhat more >>
sophisticated than this system but it's a black box.
From what I know of the Fast machine, it's quite a different product with a
different purpose. The only PC software that does the same thing as D/Vision is
EMC. On the Mac, you have Avid and Media Vision. … They're all opitmized for
non-linear edit, not controling decks, as I believe Fast is.
>> What I'm looking for is something like what you just described but also able
to >> mix MIDI controls.
I have my D/Vision outputing SMPTE to another computer, which is running
Cakewalk for windows slaved to SMPTE chase lock (MusicQuest), so I'm
accomplishing what you want. For a mixdown, we're bringing in a Mac with a
Sound Tools, SoftCell, etc. It will be a massive digital mixdown all synced
(SMPTE tape slave drivers, mixers, samplers, DATS,keyboards, ADR, Foley) to the
edit on D/Vision. … all for a feature sound track.
The $4,000 is for the top of the line software. They also sell CINEWORKS, which
does the same thing except output on-line EDLS. Then there's entry software,
$400, which only has two chanels of sound, no SMPTE, and other limitations.
I'm about a year away from the budget of a non-linear editing but am collecting
info as the technology develops. Also, if you JUST got the system report back
to us in a few months when you have really put the system through the mill.
Thanks, Don