Wisconsin Fossils
40 messages in this thread
John,
Here are the Wisconsin fossil sites that I was able to come up with without too
much trouble. The sources are Volume I of Earth Treasures by Allan Eckert,
ISBN 0-06-096101-5 and MidWest Gem, Fossil and Mineral Trails by June Culp
Zeitner, ISBN 0-935182-39-X.
Vertebrate fossils in Pleistocene gravels in Vitas, Florence, and Barron
counties. In St. Croix county, marine fossils can be found in sandstone
exposures along Willow Creek near Hudson. A quarry in Colfax, Dunn County and
another at Mt. Washington in Eau Claire county also have marine fossils,
excellent trilobites and brachiopods.
Marine fossils in bluffs at Trempealeau and in roadcuts north of Whitehall in
Trempealeau County. 4 Miles east of St. Joseph in La Crosse county are worm
tubes and trilobites.
In Brown county, there are many Ordovician fossils in shale north of Green Bay
and at the eastern shore of Lake Winnebago at Stockbridge. Check out the
Schultz Quarry in Winnebago County, on Tullar road north of its intersection
with Hwy 114 just west of Hwy 41.
Quarry Lake Park near Racine is said to have excellent trilobites and crinoids.
Brown County – Wayside area , Good bryozoans Fond du Lac – Eden, .5 mile west
on county road V bryozoans and trilobites Juneau County – Elroy area 6 miles
north on SR 80 Brachiopods
Mauston area 6 miles west on SR 82 Monroe County – Tunnel city
area quarry marine fossils
Wilton area – sw along county road Z marine fossils Waukesha
County – Genesee area quarries along SR 83 south to Waterford fine
crinoids and occasional large trilobites
Lannon area quarries – cephalopods and trilobites
I haven't gone back to check old Rock & Gems and Lapidary Journals yet. I
doubt I will do that until I get my work PC home and can use database to
organize info on all field trips. Once that's done, I will post it in the
Library.
1: I While in Topeka this weekend, I visited visited at road cut behindcut hill behind the
2: local mall. I came away with a handful of crinoid stems and,
3: minealized riaalized shell, and sea-fan pieces. Tim Jensiison at
4: NewTek had a few other ideas for local sites, and
5: his wife told me about a riverbed that was recentlyof interesting fossils
6: that was uncovered by this summer's floods. (I'd tracked
7: down a similar site in OIowa that I may visit eventually.),.)
8:
9: Daydreaming about all this, I'd lthought that twith a little
10: effort, I could certainly track down dozens of stireites around
11: Wisconsin, and compile them to a book. with a letvel
12: of details an order of mangnitude greater than the
13: other "Midewest fossil" gkind of books I've browesed at
14: rock shops over the years. But then everywoone would
15: know about all the cool sites. 🙂
16: /sendpost
Message # 114778 posted
While in Topeka this weekend, I visited a cut hill behind the local mall. I
came away with a handful of crinoid stems, mineralized shell, and sea-fan
pieces. Tim Jenison at NewTek had a few other ideas for local sites, and his
wife told me about a riverbed of interesting fossils that was uncovered by this
summer's floods. (I'd tracked down a similar site in Iowa that I may visit
eventually.)
Daydreaming about all this, I'd thought that with a little effort, I could
certainly track down dozens of sites around Wisconsin, and compile them to a
book with a level of detail an order of magnitude greater than the other
"Midwest fossil" kind of books I've browsed at rock shops over the years. But
then everyone would know about all the cool sites. 🙂
Read action !
Yep… that then is the paradoxical position we find ourselves in, whether to
publish and have years of unimaginable royalties or to remain silent and reap
the rewards of our own "special spots". Only our inner voice can tell us the
proper path.
Prospecting for new sites is as much a buzz as working a known one, I think.
Michael
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1: Unimaginable royalties? I look at the investment of time
2: and energy for versus royalties for computer books, which I
3: think might be a hotter market than rock books, and I
4: have a hard time thinking it's s 's is worth it to wroteite one…
5: A fossil book would be a labor of lovef. It might be
6: wrorth it to self-bpublish it, since people would come
7: to you to find it if it existed, unlike most
8: computer titles that people expect to find at the local
9: B Daltons. The nice thing is, most bookstores have a "local
10: secaauthors" section, and they miht ght stcok ock one or two. And
t11: hen you could convince all the state libraries that they'd
12: need a copy of this local book… it might break even.
13:
14: Down in Kansas, I found an interesting findpyrite-encuruructsted
15: shell , perhaps a sometimhign ng I've seen labelled a "baculiutete".
16: I In this same loose clay-like starratea, I could found several pokcetsckets
17: of loseeose coal. The other What's coal doing in theis type of mateirarial?
18: /post
Message # 115152 posted
Unimaginable royalties? I look at the investment of time and energy versus
royalties for computer books, which I think might be a hotter market than rock
books, and I have a hard time thinking it is worth it to write one… A fossil
book would be a labor of love. It might be worth it to self-publish it, since
people would come to you to find it if it existed, unlike most computer titles
that people expect to find at the local B Daltons. The nice thing is, most
bookstores have a "local authors" section, and they might stock one or two.
And then you could convince all the state libraries that they'd need a copy of
this local book… it might break even.
Down in Kansas, I found an interesting pyrite-encrusted shell, perhaps
something I've seen labelled a "baculite". In this same loose clay-like strata,
I found several pockets of loose coal. What's coal doing in this type of
material?
Hi, John–
It would be interesting to publish something like that as shareware. The
publishing cost would be negligible, and as a first it might capture quite a
market when the bulk of rockhounds finally get dragged on-line. An electronic
copy would be more useful, since it would be more portable (as computers
steadily become more compact) and you could subject it to global searches and
so on.
–Doug
There is 1 Reply.
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1: Shareware only "works" in rare cicrcumstances. I'm self-employed,
2: so I'm always balancing my love of what I do against the
3: potential profit of doing it. I'd go cazy razy (and broke) if
4: something I was doing wasn't supporting me. Rockhounds areAre rockhoudsnds
5: known for being generous with cash? 🙂
6: /post
Message # 115218 posted
Doug – and that leads to DDE embedding of global positioning data in the file.
I was just reading of a GPS add-on for PC's.
Michael
Gee, another excuse to get one of those portable GPS gizmos from Sony. 🙂 It
would make a great addition to the database, I'd thought of that, too. I didn't
think of the DDE part, just the manual entry of coordinates into the database.
These GPS are accurate enough to get different readings at the four corners of
a small quarry, I'd think. Also, it would be nifty to combine it with the
DeLorme CDROM maps in some way, like recording the coordinates as you drive
around in the car, to recreate where you've been.
If you are in range of 3 satellites, you get lat/long accuracy to 10 feet. Add
a fourth satellite and you have equal accuracy in the vertical realm.
Does DeLorme have CDROM maps? Like their state maps only digital?
Michael
Yes, all those nice DeLorme maps are available on CDROM, for Windows and the
Mac, for about $100-150. I haven't bought one yet, but I will eventually. My
father-in-law would love one, too. I don't know what they support in terms of
user-defined additions to the maps. It may be very easy, who knows!
That may be what pushes me over to buy a CDROM. If only they included
DEM data to load into VISTA Pro.
Well, I've heard that VRLI has released a CD of some kind that
contains zillions of DEMs, and I've also heard that the USGS is
entering the 20th Century and may release on CD instead of 9-track
tape. Since these DEMs are public data, and the only barrier entry
cost has been the relatively high cost of the USGS's 9-tracks and the
subsequent transfer of media to more PC-friendly forms, I'm sure
we'll soon enjoy more DEMs in usable forms in the future.
I'd like my company to be part of this. The raw DEM data is, well,
raw. There's places where the DEMs don't match from quadrant to
quadrant in elevation, and the sheer bulk of 258 x 258 data points
makes them unwieldy on even souped-up PCs. One key factor will be
data reduction techniques that retain a certain amount of detail, yet
compress the bulk of the data to useful levels. In essence, this is
what Vista does: it manages a lot of data points in a very specific
way with a very specific result.
Hi John,
> Gee, another excuse to get one of those portable GPS gizmos from Sony. 🙂
I took the liberty of forwarding this message to a co-worker via the
corporate e-mail. Charles lives on his sailboat and recently bought a GPS.
His comments follow:
> I would recommend the GARMIN models (the 50 or 75) rather than the Sony
> which has gotten the worst reviews in the trade journals during the
> past year. You might refer him to the various reviews on GPS, particularly
> the ones that PS has done.
> Charles
The PS he referred to is the magazine Popular Sailer. I think I still have a
recent issue with a GPS review.
> Also, it would be nifty to combine it with the DeLorme CDROM maps in some
> way,
I have on my desk at work a demo disk and brochure from a company that does
just that. Again it's a marine oriented package, but land based systems must
be on the way. Let me know if you would like me to send you copies of the
review and/or the demo package.
Regards, Guy
Hi, Guy–
Without a GPS unit, I am not ready for any demos, but what company is this
(got an address, phone, etc.?) for future reference?
–Doug
Hi Doug,
> Without a GPS unit, I am not ready for any demos,
You don't need to have a GPS to play with the demo, but your thirst for a
GPS will increase a bit. 🙂
The demo is still laying on my desk at work. 🙁 I'll get the reference info
to you early next week.
BTW, this message is being uploaded on my second pass at 9600 BPS. I got an
early Christmas present from my boss this afternoon – a USRobotics Sportster
14.4 modem with V.32 bis and V.42 bis. This sucker is *fast*! I'll
probably refer to it as my 'Harley' in the future… 🙂
Guy
Hi, Guy–
I am indeed afraid my thirst for a GPS will increase; I want to stay focused
on getting a stereo microscope. Fortunately, the deuterium spectrum lamp Ken
and I were talking of turned out to have a UV-opaque glass tube.
Bear in mind 9600 bps or even 14.4K bps may be inefficient for passes involving
a few messages from each of several forums. You might find it cheaper to
downshift to 2400 for such things, reserving high speeds for passes involving
large downloads. Which is the efficient speed will vary as CIS' pricing
structure varies. Oops, I forgot you are paying the phone company for a toll
call – that probably shifts the equation in favor of high speeds. Well, some
study may be worthwhile anyway.
–Doug
Hi, Michael–
I hear GPS units are down to $1000 apiece. How does the computer add-on
compare? I hope they will come down further and become a must for many
rockhounds. Articles on collecting sites with coordinates would become the
norm, making them worth more even as the price drops.
I wonder if we could find a hyperactive rockhound or two who spend all their
time moving from one collecting site to another; maybe some of us could chip in
and buy a GPS unit for them to use, asking that they report coordinates for
each place for inclusion in a database.
–Doug
I'm away from the catalog right now…don't even have a guess what they wanted.
I anxiously await lower prices on the handheld units. Make 'em 300-500 bucks
and I'll get one right away.
Michael
Hi Michael,
> Make 'em 300-500 bucks and I'll get one right away.
The handhelds are in the $500 range as we speak (type? :))
Guy
I've certainly seen the Sony model for less than $500 even in overpriced and
overmailed electronics magazines. How much are the Garmin models you
mentioned? (And I never had the need for a GPS while sailing… around here,
you can always see the edges of the lake. 🙂
Hi John,
Charles indicated that the Garmin GPS that he bought (the 50 I think) cost
him $650, but has dropped $100 since he got his. The lower range GPS's are
in the sub-$500 range. Anybody want to buy a used, (abused, and repaired by
yours truly) loran unit? I need the money for my GPS! <BG>
Guy
Hmmm………that may be what it takes to push me over the dege and buy one.
Michael (voting for two Christmases a year)
Hi, Guy–
Aarrgghh – another thing to distract me from buying a microscope. $500 is
indeed coming with the realm I spoke of.
–Doug
Shareware only "works" in rare circumstances. I'm self-employed, so I'm always
balancing my love of what I do against the potential profit of doing it. I'd
go crazy (and broke) if something I was doing wasn't supporting me. Are
rockhounds known for being generous with cash? 🙂
Hi, John–
Some rockhounds will spend thousands for the right rock, and some consider
paying for a rock as something like cheating. How many would pay for the right
database, I do not know. All I know is I have balked at spending $500 for
Aleph Enterprises' MINERAL database of properties of 3200+ minerals, but would
jump at the same thing without X-ray data for $100 if they offered it as they
did some years back. I am uncommonly computer-oriented (it is my profession)
among rockhounds (my hobby) as things stand now, so a project like this,
shareware or otherwise, would depend on many more rockhounds being lured into
joining the Information Revolution.
–Doug
I see your point. Some rockhounds certainly trade a lot of cash for their
collections. I've bought a few things, but I get a bigger thril from things
I've found myself. With a few review copies out to the magazines, I bet a
commercial product would reach the right people.
Hi, John–
The critical factor would be whether a review would make clear to the average
computerphobe why computer databases for rockhounds would be markedly superior
to a book with similar information. Some would not need convincing, but the
market would be many times bigger if those who need convincing could be brought
in.
–Doug
Doug:
I have forwarded the information about your upcoming Jan 9th conference to
folks at CIS … hopefully, something will make "WAHT'S NEW." … its a bad
time though…most of them have vacation during these 2 weeks, and you might
get caught in the WHAT'S NEW "pinch." Do yo have a topic for the CO….or is is
just a general meeting?
Thanks/Rick Needham/SYSOP
Hi, Rick–
Thanks for trying, whether they announce it or not. I have not thought about
specifying a topic, as no one seemed to need one. I have not been to
conferences other than the ones here, and have no notion of whether a specific
topic draws more interest, enough to offset any damping effect on those who
would prefer other topics. I imagine it depends on the topic. We have only a
few fossil collectors as yet, only a few mineral collectors, only a few
lapidaries, and so on – I have been guessing topics would have to wait until we
had more active members. Anyone figure I am wrong on this? Anyone have an idea
what topics might excite the unknown hordes of lurkers into becoming active?
Ah, I see Michael and Guy have already chosen "Sue, the Controversial
Tyrannosaurus" as a topic, which is fine with me as long as other topics are
welcome also.
–Doug
I wouldn't have it otherwise…….our conferences should be free-ranging and
open-ended.
The Sue thing is noteworthy across the board.
Michael
Sounds great to me.
from my experience, an "open" conference is the best way!
Rick
Hi Doug,
Yes, an open Con is the way to go, but if we could settle on a few topics
for announcements we might draw in some extra participants. Say, 'Topics will
include, but not be limited to: … …'
Guy
It isn't uncommon to find carbonaceous material in marine sediments. Sometimes
it is clearly wood, other times it is too homogenous to identify the source. If
you found the carbon in the same stratigraphic level, not above or below, that
would be interesting enough to closely examine the walls of the pocket to try
to determine the nature of the original material.
If the "coal" is friable and loose as you allude to, and not compact, like
chunks of anthracite or bituminous, then the source is probably the carbon
residue of some buried vegetable (perhaps broccoli). The pyritized baculite is
definitely indicative of significant organic material in the sediments in a
relatively oxygen poor environment.
Where abouts in Kansas, near Topeka? Near NewTek?
Michael
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1: Yes, in Topeka, in the cut hillside behind the Westside Mall.
2: ABoutbout fifty steps from the parking lot. 🙂 Newtek's new offices
3: are just a block or two from this namall, they moved from downtown.
4:
5: Yes, The coal was friangleble and not compact. I diddid examine it andseveral
6: bits in the field to seefor for clues of its origin, but did not find any
7: recognizable patterns like veis ns or grain or stems.
8: I may search again on the bits I brought home. Meanwhile, I'm
9: yearning for a better micrscopioscope, one for biological materials
10: and high magnicfications, and one of the typee (a thafofor examining
11: small specifmans ens like this at relatively low maginificationsnifications.
12: Are those called field microscopes?
13:
14: How does pyrite accumulate in an environment like this?
15: This pyrite is a nice copper color, it's quite pretty.
16: I'm tempted to chip away at some of it to expose themore of the
s17: hell, though. Offhand I don't see the link between
18: organic materialmateiralrial and iron and sulfide., ; and I'm sure some kind of
a19: neaaeorbic mbacteria., that's one way for it to deposit, right?
20:
21: What, you don't like broccoli? 🙂
22: /post
Message # 115219 posted
Yes, in Topeka, in the cut hillside behind the Westside Mall. About fifty steps
from the parking lot. 🙂 Newtek's new offices are just a block or two from
this mall, they moved from downtown.
The coal was friable and not compact. I did examine several bits in the field
for clues of its origin, but did not find any recognizable patterns like veins
or grain or stems. I may search again on the bits I brought home. Meanwhile,
I'm yearning for a better microscope, one for biological materials and high
magnifications, and one of the type for examining small specimens like this at
relatively low magnifications. Are those called field microscopes?
How does pyrite accumulate in an environment like this? This pyrite is a nice
copper color, it's quite pretty. I'm tempted to chip away at some of it to
expose more of the shell, though. Offhand I don't see the link between organic
material and iron and sulfide and I'm sure some kind of anaeorbic bacteria,
that's one way for it to deposit, right?
What, you don't like broccoli? 🙂
Edmund Scientific has some field scopes in their catalog that look pretty good.
We use both a loupe and a cheaper field scope for field examinations. The
monocular scope we use is illuminated and is 20x. The optics are not great but
then again, at most I've lost 25 bucks if I break it.
As for the pyrite deposition: anaerobic bacteria can reduce sulfur forming
hydrogen sulfide (H2S) which then can react with iron to form FeS, iron
sulfide. There continues to be a lot of controversy and speculation on the
actual chemistry that occurs in sediments leading to concretions and
pyritization. In most cases, there is a nucleus of organic material that acts
as a promoter of the reactions. I have cracked open concretions only to find a
single plant stem at the center, while others have bone, shells, crabs etc.
There are distinct zones in concretions, although not as distinct as in agates,
that are concentric with greater concentrations of iron in the center than at
the edges.
Since I'm presently working on three crabs for trade, I can positively state
that these concretions are tough.
Michael
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1: I've got the Edmund catalog around someonewwhere, but I think I'll try
2: the newspaper classifieds first. Good 'scopes turn up at the
3: Unive3rtirsity's junk sale occasnow and then, but further investigations
4: determined that most of the used 'scopes "fall off trucks"
5: and end up in homes. My tax dollars art work, apparently.
6:
7: As for these carbs, rabs, you found them yourself, and you're cleaning
8: them up for trade? Where are you located, and where did you
9: find these? Sounds like fun.
10: /post
I've got the Edmund catalog around somewhere, but I think I'll try the
newspaper classifieds first. Good 'scopes turn up at the University's junk
sale now and then, but further investigations determined that most of the used
'scopes "fall off trucks" and end up in homes. My tax dollars at work,
apparently.
As for these crabs, you found them yourself, and you're cleaning them up for
trade? Where are you located, and where did you find these? Sounds like fun.
John, the crabs come from coastal Miocene deposits in Washington State on the
Peninsula, near Port Angeles. Yes, I collected them myself, away from noted
sites. Happened to pay attention to the sediments along the beach, saw the
concretions, picked them up, took 'em home.
As with most concretions, a hearty tap usually parts the fossil on lines of
cleavage guaranteed to leave half in each piece. The rest is merely (g) gently
chipping away at that which is not a fossil. I use a Foredom flexible shaft
with a percussion handpiece for the gross work, liberal use of dilute HCL to
loosen the matrix, and a multitude of dental picks, custom made picks and
chisels round out the repetoire.
I have about 38 hours in the crab I'm working on now, it goes to Jerry in trade
for some Devonian stuff. These concretions are *tough*. The crab is bout 3cm
across the carapace, which is mostly exposed now. The legs and claws will take
a bit of care.
Michael
Very interesting. I'm very jealous of your tools… I hope to get some
someday. As for dental picks, should I just ask my dentist for any old
worn-out leftovers? And how much will one of these air-powered gizmos cost?
At the uppermost levels of this Topeka hill-cut, I saw a few promising
concretions that reminded me of the ironstone you see from the Mazon Creek
formation. I cracked a few but didn't find anything. It was as if each one
had been shattered by pressure, in place, before, and then a transparent
calcite had flowed between the cracks to re-cement them.
I'd tried a little vinegar to help clean some of the bits of crinoid and shell
I'd found, but it just dissolved what I wanted to save, so these specimens
hadn't been remineralized. Is there a suite of acids I should acquire to assist
in these sort of cleaning operations?
As you might be able to tell from my questions, I've got a lot of them. 🙂 I
think I should search for a paleontology textbook that would describe these
techniques in detail.
John, I picked up (no pun) most of the dental tools from my dentist. For free.
HOwever, with recent OSHA regs on blood-borne pathogens (Nathan I'm not making
this one up) most dentists have gone to autoclavable pieces or they dispose of
used equipment in a manner used for needles in the past. My supply of dental
burrs for the Foredom dried up overnight as a result.
The Foredom was purchased in Quartzsite at the POWWOW in '89 for about 150
bucks.
Acid prep of calcerous specimens requires hydrofluoric acid as it does not
attack apatite or calcite. Acetic acid (or vinegar) will rapidly fizz them
away. Same for hydrochloric, sulfuric and nitric. ********DANGER******* DO NOT
USE Hydrofluoric Acid UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN PROPERLY TRAINED, HAVE
PROPEREPROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT AND EXCELLENT VENTILATION. HF Acid causes the worst
chemical burns of the common strong acids. It is attracted to Ca++ ions, hence
the bone. Untreated burns result in severe hypo- calcemia and can result in
death. Treatment requires the use of calcium gluconate solutions or quaternary
amines provided by your friendly BURN CENTER. ********END Message****
NOw back to our regularly scheduled message-
Acetic acid (10%) 1 part glacial acetic in 9 parts water is usually mild enough
for loosening matrix around non-calcerous fossils, particularly good when the
fossils are silicaceous replacements. Vinegar is usually 4-5% and can work as
well. Hydrochloric acid (HCl) can work at the same concentrations but tends to
be a bit more vigorous. Oxalic acid works ok for removing iron stains on many
items. I haven't tested it on calcitic fossils though.
One reference for fossil prep techniques is:
Fossil Animal Remains by A.E. Rixon ISBN 0 485 12028 3
Another I haven't tracked down yet:
Paleotechniques Pub. by Dept of Geological Sciences University of Tennessee
$20.00
In addition, a forum member, Jerry Harris is a preparator for the Denver Museum
of Natural History. His ppn# is 731132,3372.
I will happily lend any advice you might want that I have,
Michael
Hi again,
> I use a Foredom flexible shaft with a percussion handpiece for the gross
> work,
Lessee here, left over from a previous life I have a mechanics air chisel.
Would that work? (Naw, more suited to breaking up concrete than concretions.
:-))
Guy
Sure, if you have *really big* fossils, or don't care for all the
fragments remaining together. There's many a time I wish I had an
air chisel out in the field. Hmm….wearing a scuba tank, regulator,
holding hose with chisel attached is a picture. Now that would be
weird to stumble across.