CompuServe Thread

In search of trees…

30 messages in this thread
#70802From: JERRY HATCHETTDec 21, 1993 10:11 AM
I'm working on a project involving a large landscape, and am in need of some high quality tree objects to use in LW. Anyone seen any high quality tree objects for sale anywhere?? Also, would VistaPro offer me any advantages over the new LW as far as creating the terrain of a golf course ?? Thanks, Jerry
#70969From: Robert NeesDec 23, 1993 10:48 PM
I have a few tree 'objects' (real 3d model objects, pines and oaks), but they are quite big and render verrrrrry slow. The best thing that I have found is to scan/freeze frame a tree of choice, clean it up in a paint package if needed, then image map it to a plane and position towards the camera. It is a 2d tree but a a good clean orginal scan or freeze can provide a much better rendering then a true 3d model. And if you are doing a golf course, you will need alot of tree objects, and the 2d route is the best in my Robert Nees, NiteWare Prod.
#70975From: JERRY HATCHETTDec 24, 1993 12:57 AM
Thanks, Robert. I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that I may have to abandon the idea of having 3d tree objects and go to the approach of using images in the scene instead. There are already gonna be enough slow rendering objects in the scene already. Thanks, Jerry
#70993From: Vance SchowalterDec 24, 1993 12:02 PM
A local PC user who makes videos for real estate agents, makes trees this way: He takes a flat object and pastes a pic of a tree from branches to trunk onto it. He makes several of these (using images with varying branches, and then fixes them at the same position, adjusting the verticle axis a few degrees for each one. When rendered in motion, you have branches lush with leaves. Although not perfect, it is a good technique. -= Vance =- Image Master Flying high on Black Belt Systems' Imagemaster R/t!
#71000From: JERRY HATCHETTDec 24, 1993 3:08 PM
Thanks, Vance. Although I've found no practical way to have nice 3D tree objects, I have been offered some interesting alternative suggestions. Thanks to you and all who have responded on my tree problem. Merry Christmas! Jerry
#71012From: Vance SchowalterDec 25, 1993 1:39 AM
Merry Christmas, Jerry! *B^) -= Vance =- Image Master Flying high on Black Belt Systems' Imagemaster R/t!
#71038From: Nathan WahlDec 26, 1993 8:27 AM
Jerry, How about using pine trees. Just make some simple cones, and cylindrical map some images on them double sided. Maybe use a transparency map made from a B&W copy of an image of a tree. You can make the t-map in ADPro or IM R/t. Might work, but don't get too close!!! Maybe a ball on a cylinder for other trees? Hmmm, will check this out and get back to you. Nate, Emerald Video. I am a Nate, ergo I Animate.
#71053From: JERRY HATCHETTDec 26, 1993 8:51 PM
Nate, Great idea about mapping images onto cones, for pine trees! I'm gonna explore this area first thing tomorrow. BTW, how are you enjoying IM R/T ?? I remember Ben posting your name as the winner of a free copy for designing one of the icons associated with the program ?? Do you like it or AdPro better?? Jerry
#71107From: Nathan WahlDec 28, 1993 2:24 PM
Jerry, Dunno. Never saw it. Go figure. Must've not used the stuff I worked up. I'll probably go with ImageFX soon, as neither of the others gets me real excited (not in the good way anyway). Besides, I met Kermit Woodall at WOCA-T, and he seemed like a really nice guy; introduced me to a few people, took time to talk. The stuff he was showing that's in the new upgrade seemed to bring it on par with the others, some things better, but still no non-AREXX batch conversions from what I understand. I anticipate good support, and can take the manual into my private study area. 8{) ASDG did score some points with me recently. Am checking into the Toaster-Abekas Driver-Excabyte way to get to better formats, and they were extremely helpful. Got a list of service houses that'll put it on tape. We're talking $0.25/frame, plus media and a low hourly rate, at a Chicago place I called. Like John Gross said, that's the best way to get to broadcast for a guy like me. Probably less than 3 grand total, and you get a 5-Gig per tape backup device, too. BTW, also met Terry Smallwood of Nucleus in person; 'nother great guy. Spent an hour or so in the booth checking out their new Pers. Editor. Very nice unit, probably shipping nowish. Mine should be in the mail. It even does a psuedo-A/B roll thing, freezing the last frame of the A roll or the first of the B roll, and doing a Toaster transition between the freeze and the rolling deck. Neat! >(Talked to him today, they are shipping in beta)< Will send along the Gang tape stuff as soon as I get the editor figured out. Get any good stuff in? Thomas Wheeler just finished his latest, and I'm sure it'd be a great addition (HINT, HINT Tom). Nate, Emerald Video. I am a Nate, ergo I Animate.
#71117From: JERRY HATCHETTDec 28, 1993 6:13 PM
Nate, Are you saying that you never got the free copy of IM r/t that you won?? Let me know what you think of Image F/X… Yeah, some good looking stuff is showing up for the AG tape. Later, Jerry
#71127From: Peter GreciDec 28, 1993 10:52 PM
Whats the approx running time of the Amiga Gang tape now Jerry????
#71180From: JERRY HATCHETTDec 29, 1993 4:09 PM
Peter, It's a little over 40 minutes right now; still waiting for submissions from some of the old gang submitters, plus any new ones, of course… Jerry
#71219From: Nathan WahlDec 30, 1993 7:51 AM
Jerry, Never saw a thing. Now I wish I'd have kept the post. You definitely HAVE to put some of Tom Wheeler's stuff on the tape. Fill the entire end of the thing with it. Absolutely excellent work there. I'm rendering a walking toy soldier anim right now, and should have it to you early next year. This one even has a story! It'll just be that and some anims and stills that I've done of late, mostly industrial stuff. Later. Nate, Emerald Video. I am a Nate, ergo I Animate.
#71237From: Peter GreciDec 30, 1993 12:32 PM
ooooh ooooh, a Toy Soldier eh??? a takeoff on Pixar's Tintoy animation perchance??? Doth this Soldier have a Rifle with Bayonet affixed?
#71244From: JERRY HATCHETTDec 30, 1993 4:24 PM
Nate, You're right: Tom Wheeler's stuff looks VERY good, especially this last tape! Jerry
#71122From: THOMAS N. WHEELERDec 28, 1993 8:20 PM
Nate, Pardon me for jumping in, but I found it interesting that you were considering purchasing ImageFX. Although I have always been an AdPro user, I have never found it easy to use, and the documentation puts me to sleep. So a few days ago I purchased ImageFX from Safe Harbor, and it came today. Without ever opening the manual I was able to load a Kodak Photo CD image, and do all sorts of neat things with the image. ImageFX is far more intuitive to use than ADPro. I am especially eager to use it in printing out some photo CD's on a Primera color printer purchased a few months ago. Incidentally, Image FX does not come with a Photo CD loader, but a Photo CD loader for use with Image FX is available in the Amiga RT on Genie and it works beautifully. I would be real interested to hear how you like the editor put out by Nucleus. I think their SFC is great, but I really like to do A/B rolls and was hoping that Nucleus' editing package would one day allow this. If I had room, I'd probably do what Jerry has done and buy a PC and the Editizer. Then again, I keep hoping that NewTek will one day introduce an Amiga based edting system incorporating the Toaster. Some day when I grow up 🙂 I'll hopfully do something on the Toaster that is worthy of the Amiga Gang video, but I'm afraid my videos, while hopfully containing some nice photography, really represent a far more trivial use of the Toaster's capabilities that what you and Jerry are doing. Tom
#71128From: Peter GreciDec 28, 1993 10:52 PM
Send in your so called TRIVIAL footage Tom, you never know, it may give others ideas on things to do…… I'd like to see it……
#71195From: THOMAS N. WHEELERDec 29, 1993 8:32 PM
Peter, I've sent Jerry a copy of my tape. If he feels any part of it is worth putting in the Amiga Gang video, it's fine by me. If you would like to have a copy of the tape E-mail me your address and I'll send one out to you. The scenery is beautiful, but it is really more of an exercise in editing than a work of art using the Toaster. I have one copy left. Tom
#71221From: Nathan WahlDec 30, 1993 7:51 AM
Peter, You will love the tape! Not a logo to be found, even, (except Tom's, of course)! Nate, Emerald Video. I am a Nate, ergo I Animate.
#71220From: Nathan WahlDec 30, 1993 7:51 AM
Tom, Great, I can use that info. It's on my purchase queue. The text that came with your EXCELLENT video looked real nice. Primera? That looks like a heck of a printer, especially with the high-quality option. Seen the output; amazing. I'm using our new HP Deskjet to make brochures and rate sheets as good as any printer could give me, but I'm wondering now if the Primera would've been a better choice. How's your cost per copy coming out? Will tell you about the editor in a while, after beta. I asked about getting one more wire out the back of the thing (for guess what), and Terry just smiled and looked at his watch. Hmmm. Yup, the Editizer sounds like my next option. Actually, you're right about your tape. Nobody should be allowed to make that nice of a tape at home! <G> Not trivial in any way, sir, what you do is equally important to the endless myriad of flying logos. Definitely a class effort, both technically and aesthetically. Nate, Emerald Video. I am a Nate, ergo I Animate.
#71241From: Arnie CachelinDec 30, 1993 2:29 PM
Would you consider perhaps uploading the ImageFX photocd loader to the Amiga fora here? I'm sure others would appreciate it. As a cheap way of digitizing batches of photos or slides with very high quality, photocd should be quite a winner.
#71101From: Lou WallaceDec 28, 1993 8:40 AM
One variation I have done is to map pictures of trees onto a flat panel, then always keep the panel at the proper angle toward the camera so the tree always seems to be visible. Make sure the background image of the tree is transparent… Lou
#71115From: JERRY HATCHETTDec 28, 1993 4:50 PM
Lou, Thanks for the suggestion. Got any good pictures of trees lying around that would be suitable?? Thanks, Jerry
#71150From: Lou WallaceDec 29, 1993 8:34 AM
The best thing is to take your 35mm camera out and pick the trees you want. Then go into an image editor and erase teh unwanted backgrounds. Lou
#71181From: JERRY HATCHETTDec 29, 1993 4:09 PM
Thanks, Lou. It never hurts to see what someone may have lying around, before going out and photographing. BTW, I just got the new DTVW, and it looks like it's really packed with interesting articles this time! I was disappointed to see that none of the images I submitted for the art pages made it in, though. They were sent about 2 months ago, and one of 'em in particular was an extremely nice image of a building I modeled for a local business commercial that took about 30 hours of work. What are the criteria for inclusion?? Thanks, Jerry
#71224From: Lou WallaceDec 30, 1993 8:40 AM
Well, the only real criteria is they must be interesting, high quality, artistic, 24/32 bit, dramatic, bizarre, photorealistic, abstract, colorful, detailed, and thought provoking… otherwise there isn't any criteria. Seriously though, just keep sending them in to the attention of Vinoy Laughner, our Managing Editor. He selects the images for the most part, and now that we are monthly we can use more images. Also, all you 3D artists out there should keep in mind that submitting your work to DTVW's Digital Gallery gets it in the face of people who are looking for good artists/illustrators. I know we have commissioned several works for the magazine (and also AW) through work that has appeared in DTVW… Lou
#71243From: JERRY HATCHETTDec 30, 1993 4:24 PM
Lou, Thanks for the info. I'll resubmit the images, and put them to Vinny's attention this time. Not having any idea whose attention to address the packet to last time, I sent it to your attention. If memory serves me correctly, I have one of your old demo reels here that I watched the other day. I'd bought some 3/4SP tapes from a posting over in BPForum, and they threw in a few used ones in the deal, one of them having one of your demos on it… Jerry
#71214From: Nathan WahlDec 30, 1993 6:40 AM
Lou, Good idea, too. Does it look noticable if the trees rotate on a fly-by? I was thinking similarly that even the same image mapped on 3 stationary flat concentric polys at 60 degrees might look pretty good. Would render almost as fast as the one you mention, too. Nate, Emerald Video. I am a Nate, ergo I Animate.
#71225From: Lou WallaceDec 30, 1993 8:44 AM
On a good flyby you are moving too fast to notice the detail, usually anyway. If it is kept to a constant angle there isn't any movement detected, just a change in scale as you approach or move away. BTW – this is a technique I learned from a visit to SGI. They use it in some of their REALITY ENGINE stuff – because it takes a lot more power and time to render a 3D modelled tree then to texture map an image… Lou
#71249From: Nathan WahlDec 30, 1993 4:36 PM
Lou, Gee, even they worry about speed, huh. Somehow, that's comforting! I might send in a frame or two, myself. Anything you need with them, text file or printed, format? Nate, Emerald Video. I am a Nate, ergo I Animate.