CompuServe Thread

#Wireframe questions

6 messages in this thread
#2129From: Kevin ClarkNov 29, 1994 10:34 AM
I'm working on a project that entails realistic rendered people (for examples, see the demos available through Visionary Media [GO: COMART, lib 16, keyword CHESHIRE]). In attempting to fine-tune my creations I've come upon two problems – the nose, and the connection between the legs and pelvis. An example of my current rendition of a nose is available here as FACE.SEG, but it lacks something for definition and realism. As for the legs, I'm trying to get as natural a movement from them while still making use of skinning. My models are taken from the BOB character to give you an understanding of what I'm currently working with. Has anyone mastered these elements and/or has suggestions? Thanks in advance, -Kevin Clark
#2168From: Chris DukeDec 1, 1994 9:33 PM
>> An example of my current rendition of a nose is available here as >>FACE.SEG, but it lacks something for definition and realism. What exactly is your concern about the nose, is it the way it is modelled and if so what part of the nose ? Or is your question about applying image maps to the surface to achieve a photo realistic effect ? >> As for the legs, I'm trying to get as natural a movement from them >>while still making use of skinning. Is this a sculpturing or animation question ? Or… ? Trying to Help, Chris D.
#2180From: Kevin ClarkDec 2, 1994 11:21 AM
Chris- I'd like to have a better wireframe of the nose ( and probably face in general). Right now, the nostrils aren't defined enough and in certain lighting the tip of thenose doesn't look right either. It's a very esoteric problem and as such is difficult to explain. For the legs, it's ultimately a sculpture problem. In the Bob example, if you move the leg forward you get an abnormal crease around the front crotch and the buttocks doesn't change at all. Now I know we can only do so much with simple skeletal movement, but it feels to me like there's a more 'natural' way to put these pieces together. -Kevin Clark
#2187From: Chris DukeDec 2, 1994 11:31 PM
Kevin, Regarding the way Bob's legs are connected to his body, I would suggest resculpting that part of his body. Assuming you haven't made any significant changes to Bob's lower torso that is. The default connection between Bob's upper leg and lower torso is horizontal in nature. This may be adequate for the rear portion of the leg but it just doesn't work for the front. The front part of the leg should connect to the pelvis in a diagonal fashion that runs approximately from the crotch to the outer pelvis (iliac crest). You'll have to experiment with the proper number and placement of control points. The placement of the pivot is also important in determining how much of a crease is created when Bob's leg is bent forward. The farther forward the pivot is placed, the smaller the crease. You can see this effect in the Sculpture module when Bob is one big segment(all of his limbs connected). While in Sculpture move the pivot to where you would place it in the Character module. Then group all of the control points in the leg and rotate them around the x-axis. The resulting crease will show up in both the wire frame mode and quick render mode. The rest of the realism necessary for convincing leg movement will probably have to be done in the morph window of the action module. The Nose. Since I am the one who asked you how to sculpt a nose or at least the one used in FACE.SEG, I don't know how much insight I can provide. The nose in FACE.SEG is pretty convincing considering how few control points were used. After I downloaded it I started experimenting. One of the changes I made was to add two multi-point splines, one on either side of the multi-point spline that runs down the middle of the nose. This helps to produce a better curve on the top of the nose and it allows for more possibilities for the point of the nose. It also helps define the upper lips. As for the nostril wings, I tried adding and deleting definition to produce a more realistic form, but I wasn't completely satisfied with the results. Other than that I spent the rest of my time on other parts of the face. For example I replaced the circular splines around the eyes with more rectangular patches to eliminate the curved artifacts that appeared when the face was rendered. I also opened the mouth and added more definition to the lips. But to be honest I haven't spent much time altering FACE.SEG. Since acquiring AM most of my time has gone towards creating non-human characters. My attempts at creating humans have been limited to constructing body parts: legs,arms,torsos, and yes even noses. My experiments suggest that if you want to create a truly realistic nose, you are going to have to use many more control points and splines. I would suggest trying to build a nose by itself and then attach it to a face instead of pulling it out of an existing face. Well that's my two cents. If anyone else reading this message has some suggestions, please speak up ! Realism = RAM, Chris D.
#2195From: Kevin ClarkDec 3, 1994 11:09 AM
Chris, Thanks for the info. The leg/pelvis connection is still in development. I've made the changes for the actual connecting spline ( using anatomy books to outline it) but then I get weird curvatures on the backside. The only option I see left is to add more splines to the pelvis and consequently the legs ( going from a simple 4-point lathe to 6 or even 8 ). I guess that's what it takes to really get a natural look ( as you said in regards to the face). Thanks again for the help, -Kevin
#2297From: Christopher HoffmanDec 7, 1994 3:58 PM
Try a 100-point lathe… The programmers have a sense of humor… <G>! Just try it, you'll understand…. Christopher Hoffman