#A-B Roll I think?
13 messages in this thread
Hello All,
A Dr. (physchiatrist) friend of mine has retired and whishes to make a
"lifes story" tape of interviews with his mother. The result is meant to be
video tape not computer. He has some Hi-8 equipment already. What i am trying
to find out for him is what equipment he will need to do the job. After
several magazine articles we are now smart enough to at least some intelegent
questions I hope. I think what he's looking for would be considered Ab Roll
deck editing. We have also beocme aware that there are analog and digital ways
to do this. If I understand it right analog would mean tape to tape without
the computer processing the actual video signal, while digital would mean the
computer would process the video, into digital, then output it as analog to the
destination tape. In any event what we need to now is which products to look
at in light of the reuqirements, those being:
– tape as destination
– computer controll of editing
– abbility to add a sound track over the video
– abbility to take several small interviews and integrate then into on
final video
– abillity to add titleing.
If I understand the concepts correctly, analog would be ok for this except that
multiple writes to the destination tape may degrade quality. I am ready to
recommed digital (like adobe) but would that require special decks. Am I
correct in assuming the decks used will at least have to have a serial port
control to connect to the computer for controll? You inputs would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks All. Jack
Jack,
You are making great headway into understanding the methods and techniques
of DeskTop Video Production! One slight clarification about your analog
vs. digital editing however. When you do A/B Roll edits, you typically
need a Switcher to "switch" the video signal that is being recorded from
the one source, to the other. These Switchers today are almost all
digital, where the Switcher will, for a few frames, digitally manipulate
the video streams. Otherwise, I think your definition is accurate.
Also, the only time that you lose a significant amount of quality in a
professional editing system today, is when you record to tape. The first
time you record to tape, it will look quite good. From then on when you
play that taped signal back edit it, and re-record it, you will start to
lose quality. This is why there are $20,000 VTRs out there, they lose
less quality in each generation than a consumer level VTR does. So, if
your "Switcher" can do more work in "one-pass", in a analog, or as it is
oftenly called today "linear" environment, you will have less generations
and, given the same quality of tape machine, a higher quality finished
result.
The decks you buy should keep this consideration in mind. Hi-8 is a good
format for maybe one to three generations, if you are real careful. The
"edit controller" that you use should support the Hi-8 decks that you have
now, which are hopefully "Control-L" equipped. With these decks, in a
linear system you should be about 2-3 frames accurate.
A normal analog A/B editing environment will consist of;
2 Source VTRs with Control Interfaces (RS-422, RS-232, or Control-M,
Control-C, etc.)
1 Recorder with a Control Interface as above
A Video Switcher w/a control Interface (In today's world, a computer with
Hardware and Software for Machine Control, Edit Decision List
Management, Painting, Titling, 3D Modeling and Animation, and
Video/Audio Switching)
A normal digital A/B editing environment will consist of;
1 VTR (source and recorder) with Control Interface
A Video Switcher like the above with;
One or more large, fast, hard disk drives for recording, manipulating,
and playing back the final production.
I hope this helps some… please let me know if you have other questions.
-John
Thanks John, I appriciate the info and quick response. Am I to deduce from
your description of compnent requirements for digital vs analog that only one
deck would be required for digital witht he proper computer equipment. I had
thought digital would be more expensive but if I can get 1 PCI-Pentium
(~$2300.00) and one deck I suspect that would be cheaper tban three decent
quality decks. This leads to one more question. If only one deck in digital
(I understand you could use more) doesn't that complicate the process. I'm
sure you wouldn't put more than a few seconds/minutes of video into the
computer for working with before writing it back out to tape and you would not
normally want to write to the source tape (I think), so would you still want to
use 2 decks, one source, one dest? or hows this work??
Thanks Again, Jack
P.S. I have some knowledge of the Video Toaster being an old Amiga fan before
people started paying me to be an IBM'er. As I understand it the Toaster would
be more of a tool for creating video and special effects than what I have
described. I also here that the Adobe package is really good for digital…?
Any thoughts?
Jack,
Let me jump in here. I just stumbled across the forum and want to participate.
Sounds like an interesting project. How fancy you want to get depends on your
budget and ambitions. Going digital will require a significant investment
since as you have figured out you will need *significant* disk space to store
the digital video on line. In the digital environment working with images
(moving, that is) becomes like word processing with cutting and pasting images
instead of words.
Staying analog (linear) will also require an investment but also some learning
of tricks of the capabilities of the equipment. If you're really talking about
A/B roll editing then it gets complicated as John pointed out, in needing a
switcher to switch between sources. This is where the Toaster can come in
since it's a switcher with built in Digital Video Effects (DVE) and titling.
Remember that true A/B roll implies special effects between scenes.
If you scale back the ambitions just a little, you can save a few buck by doing
what is called cut-to-cut editing. This only requires one source deck but
limits you to straight cuts (no fades or other special effects) between scenes.
This can be done very effectively with a little planning and is a lot cheaper
since it doesn't require a switcher. You can use inexpensive titling and
keying hardware/software and still get good graphics. Iv'e been doing this for
some time in Cable Public Access and you can get professional looking results.
I might suggest a couple of videotapes from Knowledge Path on the Sony EVO9800
(a single unit two well player/recorder/controller). Even if you dont have or
plan to buy the Sony, it's got some good tips.
It all depends on your ambition and budget, and what you plan to use the
equipment for after the project is over. This could be a significant
investment for a one time project.
Good luck,
Jim
I strongly suggest that you look into the Video Machine from FAST. They have
just released a high quality Hybrid system that controls 422 tape decks and
also plays back off hard drive for non-linear. The effects and all graphics are
applied in real tome (no rendering). Compression is variable form "off-line" to
on-line what ever that suggests. The quality of the system is Y-U-V, or
betacam, and is open ended for expansion. The Digital Player is actually
shipping.
FAST can be reached at 800-248-3278 ffor more info.
Regards
Keith
Jack, I use the Video Machine from Fast. It will do exactly what you want at
an acceptable price. You can get a digital memory for it. The problem with
digital memory, digital recording vs. analog, is you need A LOT of memory for
high quality recording. This is an area you must explore with your dealer.
You need to decide what quality video you can live with and what budget you can
live with. When you mix computers with video you almost seem to square, rather
than double, the number of ways to spend large amounts of money quickly.
The Toaster has a digital interface out called the Flyer. I am not a Toaster
fan for personal reasons. You should look at both and make your own decision.
I use the Fast and have cut post production time by a factor of at least 4,
based on a "Cuts Only" editing system.
Your project sounds fascinating. Let me know what you decide, just curiosity,
and how it works for you. Good Luck and best wishes.
John, am new member. Been eavesdropping on your advice and am
appreciativeenough to steal it for myself. I am long time motion pic
Cameraman/Director new to computers and recognie the tremendous power of making
video truly a one person art form i.e. writer, director, camerman, editor,
soundman, gaffer, grip, props etc. In my haste to try my hand at editing (have
always had editorial control on moviola & flatbed) I purchased a soft ware pkg.
from Gold Disk (through TIGER) called "Video Director" but am chicken to load
it, anticipating usual COM problems. (software producers always mention that on
pg 47 or so, after you buy the product). Do you have any advice on this
product. This forum is great!
Haha, John!
Don't be chicken, get it on! Everything I have heard about Video Director
has been quite positive! Welcome to the forum, John!
-John
Hi, I just joined this forum and am intrigued by your message since I am doing
almost the same thing. I bought a Video Director 2.0 thru a sale for 80$. I
have a Sony Hi-8 and bought a Go Video dual VHS for amateur quality recording
and, more importantly, to do multiple copies for family. I have a 2 year old
son and want to do long-term chronicles but am tired already of 'hours' of tape
when I get bored. I have loaded the VD s/w and within minutes had it up and
working with the Smart Cable. Also I did make a call to Gold Disk and they
were helpful. If you have probs., they have some new drivers on a BBS but I
didn't download them. It created a driver for Go VHS in 5 minutes. Now, I
haven't done anything yet (got it going yesterday) but I am excited about it.
My question to you or anyone else – How to get reasonable price ability to add
some titling and special effects. The VD does come with a program but I need
the hardware to do genlocking to overlay titles. Someone recommended PC-TV
Eyes which apparently can display TV on the screen. Any comments out there?
Looking forward to this forum!!
Hi mark, welcome to the DeskTop Video Forum!
To add titles and graphics to your video tapes what you will need is a
device called an "overlay genlock". This device will "overlay" your
computer graphics on top of an incoming video signal and then you record
the combined output on to a second VTR.
One genlock that may be well suited to your application is the GVP GLock.
The reason I say that is that they have special software that will allow
Video Director limited control of the genlock. They, GVP, sell a bundle
called the Personal Suite Plus which includes the Genlock, Video Director,
and a package called Curtain Call for character generation and animation.
-John
Thanks for the help. Do you know how to reach GVP? Not a name I am familiar
with.
Hi Mark,
GVP can be reached at 215-354-9495.
-John
Hello Jack
I work for TAO Media Systems, the manufacturer of the Editizer. The Editizer
is a A/B roll controller with the ability to start out with HI-8 (Ctrl-L/LANC)
machines as sources and expand to other types of equipment as your needs grow.
Our product has the ability to do all the things you mentioned in your message.
I will be glad to see you literature and a demo disk. Send me your name and
address or call 800-TAO-EDIT to receive the information. If you do not want to
wait on USPS mail, the Windows demo is available in the Windows section of this
forum.
Paul McVicker 73532,2041
TAO Media Systems Inc