CompuServe Thread

Hi Igor, In my most humble opinion, as a lowley infidel, I would suggest that you study the ramifications of the collector. He is the one that went out into the hinterlands to attempt to locate the mineral specimens that you might be interested in. He is the one who busted his butt collecting the "tourmaline" or whatever for your pleasure. "Blue Book",? Bull S…! In this hobby of mineral collecting, you pay for quality, clarity, perfection, rarity & availability. If the speciman does not conform to your standards, then reject it. On the other hand, if you see a speciman that "you can not possibly go home without", then you might want to buy it. And forget the blue book! Rod

Hi Igor, In my most humble opinion, as a lowley infidel, I would suggest that you study the ramifications of the collector. He is the one that went out into the hinterlands to attempt to locate the mineral specimens that you might be interested in. He is the one who busted his butt collecting the "tourmaline" or whatever for your pleasure. "Blue Book",? Bull S…! In this hobby of mineral collecting, you pay for quality, clarity, perfection, rarity & availability. If the speciman does not conform to your standards, then reject it. On the other hand, if you see a speciman that "you can not possibly go home without", then you might want to buy it. And forget the blue book! Rod

Hi, Igor– I am unable to offer anything but sympathy. I have gone to a number of shows, including several of the world's-biggest Tucson show (coming up soon in early February), and have at best a vague sense of what is a reasonable price. At least at Tucson, I can easily see several offerings of somewhat similar specimens and compare their prices. Each specimen, even of the same mineral from the same site, is so different that a blue book may be impractical. Apart from that, the market is rather small for such things to be worth someone's effort to put together. That dealer that offered you the lowest price – are you sure the specimen was of the same caliber as the others you considered? It may have more cracks, a less vibrant color, less interesting matrix, a more vague location, or in some way be less worthy than what you have seen. Or have you seen what was offered in each case? If wild variations in price are a headache, they are also an opportunity. If the market were more developed, the price of a specimen would settle at some sort of average value, and leave fewer bargain-basement "steals" to be found to the same extent it eliminated "rip-offs". Often all I can do is ask myself which I want more: (1) that rock, (2) those other rocks with the same total price, or (3) something else that money might buy. I am a mere mortal, prone to imperfection, and must therefore take a chance on overpaying sometimes if I am to buy anything. I do not allow myself to make bruises when kicking myself after finding the same thing for half the price, and think of it as an opportunity to buy Christmas presents or something instead. Unlike Tucson (as far as I know), the Denver show each September (2nd biggest in the U.S., more or less) has a swap room; you can just compare (1) and (2) and worry less about whether you were "robbed" afterwards. –Doug

Igor, Tough question, and Rod and Doug have fairly well spelled out the problem. My mind is trying to convince me that there is a blue book of specimen prices, but I can't really recall it exactly. There is one for gems (Van Nonstrand's Standard Catalog of Gemstones" by J. Sinkankas (don't know when it was last updated). This one can be useful for gemmy single crystals. But those books can't take into account the individualitiy of each specimen. Mineral prices are constantly rising, especially for the middle to upper quality material and a lot of people complain that this is such a rip-off, but in the eyes of the specimen collector (difficulties, mining/collection conditions, hazards, expenses, nasty weather, nasty terrain, etc.) prices are way to low. If you go to a major show where there are a lot of mineral dealers you will find similar specimens from the same "recent" find at widely variable prices. One must comparison shop to find a dealer who has the best prices but also sure you are actually getting the same quality material. Having been to Tucson and Denver many times, I have seen some major variations in essentially equal specimens. The main point is it is not possible to have a true blue book of mineral specimens. No two specimens are alike, so a price given must be in a range: 1 inch light amber colored topaz from Pakistan, 90% gemmy at $40-100. Not much help actually. The only thing the blue book could give you is exactly what you found looking on your own! So, the only thing to do if you are interested in buying specimens is to go to as many mineral shows as possible and get a handle on what material goes for what prices then carefully select the specimens you like at the "best price" you can find with a few trade offs considering such things as "I like this one better with the tiny anatase on the quartz even though it is $20 more." Lanny

Hi, I've read the earlier replies and there is good advice there. But everyone has their own opinion and that includes me. One extension of the "you can not possibly go home without" is "am I going to feel bad if I find a better or cheaper one later?" This is a question best answered before you buy. I bought a sturmanite because it was new and rare for $100 because I thought I might not be able to get one later if they found no more, but if they found more it was not enough that I would cry about it. A year later I bought one that was a lot better for $20. I do not regret the first one, because I was prepared for it. Your example of a tourmaline brings up another problem. It is a gem mineral. As such, if it has cutting potential you will have to pay the equivalent of the cut stone or more to save it. Pala International, which owns the Himalaya Mine in San Diego County, California, will not sell you one of their tourmalines for $100 that they can cut and sell for $100 per carat even though Bill Larson who owns the company is a voracious mineral collector himself. This is economic reality. Even carving grade (not gemmy, but good color) is going for several dollars per gram. Gem crystals just make the pricing problem a lot more complicated. As to a "Blue Book," the AMS and IMA could care less about the collector. They are looking for samples to grind up for analysis. But there is a guy, somewhere in the southeast that has been putting together a "Collectors Guide to Buying Minerals" for several years. I see him at Tucson and other shows. He is always updating his book with references to what he saw for sale, where and at what price. As with all such references, they need to be viewed with a grain of halite, because as you have already been told prices always change, he cannot see every specimen sold and keep up with even a fraction of what is happening. If you want, I can the correct book title for you as I have a freind that has a copy. – Bill