#Alladin Timing
6 messages in this thread
Hi all,
If you have any experience in timing a Pinnacle Alladin would you help
me.
I have recorded good bars out of the alladin to tape. I have then
played that tape as an input to #1/#2 on the Alladin. I can match the …
color-bars to where everyone says, that's good. I am matching by vision, no
vec/wav here… But, when I get good bars both on my source and as compared
to my DVE, my DVE, in real life, not bars, looks wacked out!
It, my DVE, doen't seem to be able to match the kind of low color, blueish,
scenes that something like a seaQuest can feed it. I turn on the DVE and I go
uuugh. Subtle shades, along the dark side, are just flat black. I kind of
think that I am missing a major timing issue but I don't know what it is. Any
help is appreciated!
-John
Hi, John.
I just installed an Alladin system for our company in Stamford, Connecticut.
We're in the process of transitioning from "mostly linear" to "mostly
nonlinear;" with that transition, we've unloaded our Vista switcher, ADO 100
and Abekas A72 in favor of the Alladin, while adding Avid online capability to
our equipment lineup.
Granted, we have the scopes you're missing, but it shouldn't be impossible to
get decent results with the Alladin anyway (though the scopes are an investment
you should think about VERY seriously).
Having gotten to the point you describe — where in setup mode you can get
decent color bars out of the Alladin — you're still missing a step.
While in switcher mode, start by pulling down the file menu and selecting NEW
to make sure you have no effect loaded.
Send color bars from your deck through the Alladin and select that deck on the
program bus. Also select the same deck on layer "A". On the key choices for
layer "A" select FULL KEY. At this point you basically have the deck keyed
over itself. (Make sure layer B is off). You're now looking at the deck on
layer A, because layer A is in front of the program bus. There are bars on the
program bus, but you can't see them because they're obscured by the bars on
layer A. We need to see both sets of bars at once.
Select "USE DVE" on layer "A". In the CROP menu, move the slider for TOP until
the screen is horizontally split, with bars on the program bus visible on the
top (where you've cropped away the DVE image) and bars from the uncropped part
of the DVE image on the bottom.
Now, use THE DECK'S subcarrier and H-phase controls to precisely match the hue
and horizontal position of the bars on the top and bottom so you can no longer
tell where the split is.
Switch to each other deck in your system on program and layer A and perform the
same steps (it is not necessary to go through the cropping again). You should
be in business.
Let me know if this helped. As I said, I'm from Connecticut, but I'm writing
this from Florida while on vacation, so I don't have the Alladin or its manual
in front of me. But off the top of my head this should solve your problem.
Pete
Pete,
Thanks for the help! Ok. My original message was a little misleading. I
have the timing issue that you described, well done.
The problem that I have is in making the LayerA DVE match ProgramA. In
other words, I would like to be able to crop the DVE to a 1/4 panel over
ProgramA and NOT BE ABLE TO SEE IT. When I do this, I can get it very,
very, close, but what I can not get rid of is an overall "darkening" of
the video. The hue looks fine, but on very low level shots, for instance
a deep-underwater blue, I lose any subtle shading of blues and the picture
basically becomes black.
In the setup menu, under Input Adjustments, the adjustments that affect
the DVE, there is a Y-Gain and a Chroma-Gain that do NOT seem to effect
this loss of low-levels. Now to get the DVEs hue to match the incoming
signal I do have the hue at like 3 out 256 or 249 of 256; If you
understand what I am saying, the hue is like full-left or full-right, and
I wonder if I can change something on my TBC to make the hue in the DVE be
more in the middle.
The other thing I am thinking it might be is some sort of termination or
something. The video in general looks fine, so I don't think it is that,
but something is definately wrong with the DVE.
Thanks for the help, Peter. (and enjoy your vacation!)
-John
John,
>> I would like to be able to crop the DVE to a 1/4 panel over ProgramA
>> and NOT BE ABLE TO SEE IT. When I do this, I can get it very, very,
>> close, but what I can not get rid of is an overall "darkening" of the
>> video.
Without being able to see the picture, I can't tell whether you have a problem
with your DVE or whether you're just expecting too much from it. There's no
question but that there will be some difference between program video and DVE
video. On **most** shots you should be able to match it so closely that you
can't tell the difference. But there ARE differences, even with higher end
equipment. As a matter of fact, the Alladin DVE is more video-transparent than
the Ampex ADO-100. But there IS a difference between program and DVE.
>> . . . the hue is like full-left or full-right, and I wonder if I can
>> change something on my TBC to make the hue in the DVE be more in the
>> middle.
I doubt it would make much of a difference, since the hue rotates through all
360 degrees. As long as you're able to get a match and you don't find that
your proper setting lies in a dead spot between the minimum and maximum
settings (which should be impossible) then I wouldn't lose any sleep over the
hue adjustment. Ours is in roughly the same place.
Guess the next step is a call to Pinnacle or a visit to their BBS. In case you
don't have the number, it's 408-720-1186.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of effect are you trying to produce which
exhibits the problem?
Pete
Peter,
You have been a lot of help and maybe you are right in that I am trying to make
the DVE match the source too closely. I will try Pinnacle's tech support and
or BBS this next week and let you know what they say.
My current "hottest thing I have seen on TV and am trying to imitate effect" is
an advertisement for a local hospital where a portion of the picture expands
out and then dissolves to a logo. I think they are "hiding" the DVE by
cropping it into the picture and then moving it plus-z to enlarge it, then
doing a dissolve to a logo, beneath the DVE, either in a Layer-B or G1.
-John
John,
>> My current "hottest thing I have seen on TV and am trying to imitate
>> effect" is an advertisement for a local hospital where a portion of
>> the picture expands out and then dissolves to a logo. I think they are
>> "hiding" the DVE by cropping it into the picture and then moving it
>> plus-z to enlarge it, then doing a dissolve to a logo, beneath the
>> DVE, either in a Layer-B or G1.
I may be stating the obvious here; if so, forgive me.
The best way to do the kind of "concealed" effect is to match the DVE and
background image as closely as possible, and then construct a timeline in which
the DVE image dissolves in over the background in just a couple of frames and
just as it begins to move. If it's timed right, the audience never sees any
slight difference between the foreground and the background because of the
motion. You also want the edges slightly softened using the Border Softness
function to further minimize the contrast between the DVE and the image behind
it.
Pete