#Amiga SW and ease of use
18 messages in this thread
Richard,
"ALL I wanted to do is read a darn newsletter"
>> That's exactly what you should have done. Why bother installing it
anyway?
Two reasons. First, the file is in Amiga Guide format with link
information embedded in the text, and secondly, because it unpacked with
an icon that read "Install-AReport". Or do you think I should have just
ignored all this?
Tab Trepagnier
Cruising on AutoPilot from Beaumont, Texas
I've got a ToolManager dock strip with Multiview as on of the docks. Whenever I
want to view a guide file I just drag and drop the guide icon onto the
Multiview icon … voila, instant display.
-sja
Gee, mine works like that, too! One of the handy features of TM. I also
have the RetinaDisplay on my dock, which launches JPEGs in 3-4 seconds.
Unfortunately, ADpro won't load a file from the dock. It only starts up,
although you can then drag'n'drop into the ADPro window.
DJ
On AP from Queens, the thrill and excitement of the Big Apple
Where the ice cream truck plays Helter Skelter …
All that stuff in the distribution is pretty much fluff. I generally just
use my directory utility, SID. I select the file and push the unarc button
on my button bar. Then, I select the guide file and press the button I
have configured for amigaguide. Pretty simple.
Alternatively, you can type "amigaguide filename" from the shell or use
multiview in the same manner, if you have WB3.x. If you don't have 3.x
there's a really neat program "MultiIndicator" or "MIndicator" that can
also be used from the shell or run so that it sets up an appicon that you
can drop the file icons, phoney ones too, on. It distinguishes between
guides and regular ascii files, even lets you select and editor to pass
the file to on request.
As Steve Ahlstrom mentions, a tool bar is a great way to go to simplify
things on the WorkBench. The PD program Tool manager lets you set one of
these up. Gives you extra items in the tool menu or sets up a dock of
appicons that will rev up just about any of your favorite programs.
-Richard
Richard,
Thanks for your help.
"… I select the file and push the unarc button
on my button bar. Then, I select the guide file and press the button I
have configured for amigaguide. Pretty simple."
Of course it is, if you have SID configured that way. I have already
unarced the distribution file, so that part has been done. I don't have
any SID buttons configured to run AmigaGuide, and now I'm being counseled
to reconfigure ANOTHER program to read the newsletter I can't easily read
as distributed from the author.
"Alternatively, you can type "amigaguide filename" from the shell or use
multiview in the same manner, if you have WB3.x. If you don't have 3.x
there's a really neat program "MultiIndicator" or "MIndicator" that can
also be used from the shell…"
I am running WB 2.1. I have two alleged Amigaguide file readers, but
neither is intuitive when used on the newsletter file. So now I am to
track down yet another file in order to read the newsletter. Right.
"As Steve Ahlstrom mentions, a tool bar is a great way to go to simplify
things on the WorkBench. The PD program Tool manager lets you set one of
these up. "
Yes, I know. I've been using Tool Manager for almost three years.
My original post concerned ease of use with a publicly distributed
newsletter. Three days and 16 messages later, the bottom line is this:
1) Workbench will not find files that are in compound assigned directories
like my C: directory. This feature was introduced in WB 2.04 and carried
thru WB 2.05 and WB 2.1 with no improvement. It is MY responsibility to
solve this problem.
2) The newsletter was distributed in Amiga Guide format with a program
that, by title, claims to install something relevant to that newsletter.
It is MY responsibility to track down some suitable viewer for the
newsletter.
3) The Installer program referenced by the installation program has
apparently been through several evolutions, and mine is too old; hence the
errors in the script files. It is MY responsibility to track down a newer
version of Installer so I can read the newsletter.
4) When attempting to feed the install program to Installer, I get a
message that "something is wrong" and it is MY responsibility to
reconfigure and rerun Installer, then track down its log file, to figure
out what the error was.
Gee, the Amiga is SO EASY to use. Who could ask for anything more?
Tab Trepagnier
Cruising on AutoPilot from Beaumont, Texas
Tab,
"1) Workbench will not find files that are in compound assigned
directories like my C: directory."
Try adding the following line to your user-startup file right after the
line to set the paths (this assumes the directory is named cc, I think
that is what you said it was named):
assign c: sys:c/cc Add
"2) The newsletter was distributed in Amiga Guide format with a program
that, by title, claims to install something relevant to that newsletter.
It is MY responsibility to track down some suitable viewer for the
newsletter."
I'd call the company up and ask for my money back. No way should they
charge for something like that! 🙂
-Marty
Martin,
You posted to me…
"1) Workbench will not find files that are in compound assigned
directories like my C: directory."
>> Try adding the following line to your user-startup file right after the
line to set the paths (this assumes the directory is named cc, I think
that is what you said it was named):
assign c: sys:c/cc Add
Maybe I'm just trying to do this too late at night. Maybe you are too.
I have a 'stock' SYS:C directory of WB 2.1 commands.
I also have additional goodies in SYS:CC. This is NOT a subdirectory of
SYS:C. Because I have run into other programs that insisted that commands
be in C:, despite the LACK of a visible hard coded path, I logically
consolidate them with
ASSIGN C: SYS:C SYS:CC
Under versions of Workbence 2.04+, this makes BOTH physical directories
part of logical directory C:. Logical directory C: is almost always part
of the command search path on the Amiga; and it is on mine. Contained
within physical SYS:CC is a program called Installer.
When I unpacked Amiga Report, I got an icon that read 'Install-AReport'.
Being a total moron, I assumed it installed something relevant to Amiga
Report. Its default tool was 'Installer' with no path. When I
double-clicked on the icon, it reported 'Unable to load your tool
'Installer' even though that program was in *physical* SYS:CC which is a
part of *logical* C: which is part of the command search path.
When I put a path on the Installer command within the icon, it ran the
Installer program on my system, but choked on a (Library) command. So I
apparently don't have the RIGHT Installer. Silly me.
So, if I want to view the AmigaGuide-format Amiga Report in an AmigaGuide
reader, I must either track down a "better" AmigaGuide file reader, or
track down a newer Installer program. To read a newsletter.
"2) The newsletter was distributed in Amiga Guide format with a program
that, by title, claims to install something relevant to that newsletter.
It is MY responsibility to track down some suitable viewer for the
newsletter."
>>I'd call the company up and ask for my money back. No way should they
charge for something like that! 🙂
Cute. But I never claimed to have spent anything except time and
Compuserve connect charges to obtain Amiga Report. In this case, I truly
got what I paid for.
Tab Trepagnier
Cruising on AutoPilot from Beaumont, Texas
Although the author of the newsletter might have made things a little
easier for the installation, you are not exactly paying a great deal for
it either. Usually when someone provides such a service for free, I don't
bitch too much about his installation techniques.
// John (Warp 4040 & Emplant Quadra 840)
\X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net
John,
Fair enough, and point taken.
But this 'free' newsletter cost me several hours of late-night
personal time, and about an hour of Compuserve connect charges.
I realize the author certainly didn't hold a gun to my head and say,
"Download my unreadable newsletter that works with nothing on your
system." But if that was my newsletter, I would want as many people as
possible reading it. As it stands, there are two classes of readers,
"insiders" who have already set up their Amigas to read the newsletter,
and "outsiders" like myself. If you are an "outsider" like myself,
the author will neither do, nor provide, anything to help you become an
"insider." Now, after all the lost time and inapplicable advice, I no
longer care to become an "insider." Free or not, the hassle I experienced
is beyond what I care to spend to do something as seemingly simple as
reading a newsletter. And the author is apparently happy with the
readership level he has achieved, so making things simple for new
readers is a low priority. That is his right. Walking away from this whole
mess is my right.
Tab Trepagnier
Cruising on AutoPilot from Beaumont, Texas
I download it, de-archive it, apply a program called Guide2Doc which
converts ot from AmigaGuide format to plain text, then load it into
TurboText, and edit out all the stuff I don't find interesting or worth
reading twice.
I've never "Installed" it.
jsaklad@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu . . JimDoc, on AutoPilot
Jim,
Part of your post included these steps:
"… apply a program called Guide2Doc which converts ot from AmigaGuide
format to plain text, then load it into TurboText, and edit out all the
stuff I don't find interesting or worth reading twice."
My original post after encountering Amiga Report for the first time was
that despite our religion, the Amiga is NOT as easy to use as we would
like to believe. As an Amiga user for seven years, and a senior analyst in
my company's computer department, I can certainly handle what you describe
above. But is this your definition of "intuitive?"
Also, did Guide2Doc come with your Amiga, or did you have to 'track it
down' and install it yourself?
Tab Trepagnier
Cruising on AutoPilot from Beaumont, Texas
TT <<My original post after encountering Amiga Report for the first time
was that despite our religion, the Amiga is NOT as easy to use as we would
like to believe.>>
I've been keeping quiet, and reading this thread. (To many cooks in this
kitchen already.)
Your right about the Amiga not being as easy as we like to believe. Of
course no computer is as easy to use as we would like believe.
The real problem is Amiga Report relying on too many *optional* programs
and files being "there". Why wasn't there a click & read "readme.first"
file for telling the downloader what is and isn't needed.
AmigaDOS 3.0 & 3.1, doesn't use AmigaGuide, instead it uses Multiview
equipped with an amigaguide datatype. The pre-3.x, Amigas didn't ship
with AmigaGuide, they needed to DL the program.
A simple text file displayed with MORE, could have greatly helped. It
could have told what files go where and what they do.
– Ron. (People who say cats always land on their feet…
just don't know how to throw them right.)
Ronald,
>> The real problem is Amiga Report relying on too many *optional*
programs and files being "there". Why wasn't there a click & read
"readme.first" file for telling the downloader what is and isn't needed.
I believe you hit the nail on the head with that observation; at least as
far as Amiga Report is concerned.
>> AmigaDOS 3.0 & 3.1, doesn't use AmigaGuide, instead it uses Multiview
equipped with an amigaguide datatype. The pre-3.x, Amigas didn't ship
with AmigaGuide, they needed to DL the program.
I have a decked-out A2000 running WB 2.1. I have tried to keep current.
It's not like I'm still trying to keep working with WB 1.3.
I presently have two AmigaGuide-format file reader. But they both suck.
No doubt I will continue trying readers until I find one I like. But I
want that to be at my convenience, not be forced to do this NOW, because a
newsletter briefly caught my interest.
>> (People who say cats always land on their feet…
just don't know how to throw them right.)
I am a cat person. May you rot in H**l <g>.
Tab Trepagnier
Cruising on AutoPilot from Beaumont, Texas
TT <<I have a decked-out A2000 running WB 2.1. I have tried to keep
current. It's not like I'm still trying to keep working with WB 1.3.>>
I wasn't so much ranting on the need to keep current, but the simple fact
that there is more than one 'standard' utility used to read amigaguide
files. Users of 3.0 & 3.1 have to rename the TOOLTYPE from AmigaGuide to
MultiView for their systems (as well as make sure the Amigaguide.datatype
is active).
– Ron. (People who say cats always land on their feet…
just don't know how to throw them right.)
Tab –
> As an Amiga user for seven years, and a senior analyst in my company's
> computer department, I can certainly handle what you describe above.
> But is this your definition of "intuitive?"
No, certainly not. If I gave the impression I was claiming that, I
apologize.
I'm the sort of user that takes an application and tweaks it until it does
just what I want it to, but I'm also very conservative of RAM disk space.
I looked for a way to remove all the "packing material" from Amiga Report,
and someplace happened to run across Guide2Doc. It was just another tool,
that made stripping Guide codes out that much easier, so I added it to my
toolbox.
On the other hand, "Install" and "Installer" was a bad choice on CBM's
part, and I'm sure MANY people beside you and I have gotten confused about
it/them. I never tried the installer on THIS application because I already
knew — from before they were IN AmigaGuide format — that I wouldn't use
them that way. So I unpack 'em, look at the pictures (in DiskMaster) if
there are any, throw everything else out, and deal just with the .guide
file.
As I comment sometimes to the Anesthesia Residents that I get to teach: I
sometimes think I'm not a good teacher now for beginners, because there
are so many things that I simply don't think to explain because they are
second nature to me now.
jsaklad@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu . . JimDoc, on AutoPilot
Jim,
> As an Amiga user for seven years, and a senior analyst in my company's
> computer department, I can certainly handle what you describe above.
> But is this your definition of "intuitive?"
>> No, certainly not. If I gave the impression I was claiming that, I
apologize.
OK. No problem.
I already have two AmigaGuide readers. The problem is that they both suck.
One of them uses the TAB key to navigate and almost completely ignores the
mouse-now THAT'S intuitive!
Because it is a standard file format, I'm sure I'll keep downloading
AmigaGuide-format readers until I get one I like. But I want to do that at
MY convenience, and NOT be forced to have all this finalized just to read
a newsletter that I download on a whim.
>> On the other hand, "Install" and "Installer" was a bad choice on CBM's
part, and I'm sure MANY people beside you and I have gotten confused about
it/them.
Most of the confusion on that was caused by the unexpected error late at
night. In reality, I DO understand the difference between them.
>> As I comment sometimes to the Anesthesia Residents that I get to teach:
I sometimes think I'm not a good teacher now for beginners, because there
are so many things that I simply don't think to explain because they are
second nature to me now.
I understand. I usually end up issuing three or more revisions of every
procedure I issue to our techs for the same reason. Having a former sailor
on my team helps; he helps me write my procedures to be "sailor-proof."
* And before I get flamed, that is HIS term! *
Tab Trepagnier
Cruising on AutoPilot from Beaumont, Texas
PMFJI but I just had to thank you for the laugh I got out of your comment:
>I understand. I usually end up issuing three or more revisions of every
>procedure I issue to our techs for the same reason. Having a former
>sailor on my team helps; he helps me write my procedures to be
>"sailor-proof." * And before I get flamed, that is HIS term! *
In the Air Force we say making something that easy to understand is
making it "Officer Proof". I guess in the Navy it's not limited to just
the Officers. Hehehehe. I must agree with you that Amiga SW is not
exactly the easiest to use, I'm still trying to fix my own little
Multiview problem, but at least I don't have to look at a Microsloth
screen that is chugging along trying to decide which program gets that
ever so valuable .64MB of Pentium based conventional memory.
James Ferrenburg
Aiming High with AutoPilot
James,
Thanks for reciprocating. I got a laugh from:
>> … but at least I don't have to look at a Microsloth
>> screen that is chugging along trying to decide which program gets that
>> ever so valuable .64MB of Pentium based conventional memory.
Oh come on. Its not THAT complicated. DOS gets it ALL.
Because of the "speed" and sophisticated multitasking of Micros**t's OS, I
have FIVE PC's in my office, and I use all of them at the same time (in
addition to the old A2000 I have in my office). People have come from
other floors to watch me work like this.
Because we mix network protocols, we run two sets of network software.
Neither set knows what "extended" memory is, so they both require
"conventional" memory. Extended memory is RAM that requires a software
gatekeeper for every Intel CPU released since 1982.
We have such a RAM-cram problem that when an engineer "mis-spoke" himself
and said that a new system's TSR needed 50 KB of RAM, every person in the
room gasped. This is on third-generation 32-bit hardware with a minimum of
8 MB RAM. Micros**t strikes again!
My main PC is a 486-33 with 16 MB RAM. Yet I have such a RAM-cram problem
that FORMAT command crashes the system so bad it requires a power-down.
(Afterburner ON)
Which is why I lie awake nights fantasizing about Ali with cross-hairs on
the bridge of his nose. The Amiga's OS is *vastly* more powerful and
efficient that anything that has ever escaped the labs of Micros**t. But
in 10 years, Commodore's truly amazingly incompetent management couldn't
even achieve visibility, much less market success. And nothing said or
done by anyone outside of their so-called upper eschelon made any
impression whatsoever. It was 10 years of amazingly crummy business as
usual. Now our choices are Micros**t's drivel, the Mac which still doesn't
multitask, and OS/2 which might be gone tomorrow.
The PowerPC has so far shown itself (outside of Apple's Power Macs) to be
the technological joke of the 90's.
(Afterburner OFF)
Tab Trepagnier
Cruising on AutoPilot from Beaumont, Texas