CompuServe Thread

#v-lab motion

10 messages in this thread
#179845From: Thomas H. GiebinkDec 27, 1994 6:19 PM
I'm looking for review information on V-lab motion/tocatta non-linear video editing… trying to get an idea how it stacks up to Premiere on the MAC for performance and total expense ( after you add the necessary cards to the MAC) before I buy in. Thanks for whatever news you can send my way Thanks TOM
#179916From: Paul GerhardtDec 28, 1994 7:56 AM
I'd like to add to Tom's request with a few more specific questions. (Picked up a little money in Xmas gifts and am close to buying.) Does V-Lab Motion commandeer an entire HD partition, or does it just create files on an existing partition? Is it worth while getting the sound board at the same time? How well does the sound editing system work? How many tracks are supported and is there any provision for controlling the level of each track so that complex sound "layering" can be achieved? Thanks in advance. …Warp Engine Engaged… -Paul-
#179999From: Thomas H. GiebinkDec 28, 1994 8:32 PM
Hi Paul, Talked to Eric at Noah Ji's… lots is popping there. They're developing what appears to be a truly remarkable 060 based machine (not an Amiga, exactly but an Amiga-like and will run all programs that Retina supports). Anyway, Vlab does not necessarily hog a whole partition (but of course the less fragmented it is the faster disk access is) also Big Blocks formating (part of WB 3.0+ speeds up data rate. Evidently audio not syncing to video has been solved in latest version… The tocatta board is good hardware but the software is not anywhere near as sophisticated as Studio 16… but then you can use Movie Shop to sequence the audio and adjust levels (so says Eric). Sounds nearly too good to be true… which is why I'm looking for direct un hussling feedback. EEric gave me a few phone #'s of people working with it now. Sempte based editing generating CMX lists (importnat to me) is to be out soon(?) Advise a call to Eric and have him send you all the current info will send more when know more best Tom
#180000From: Eduard JosephDec 28, 1994 8:45 PM
68060 machine? I though that it was still in beta with release undefined.
#180157From: Thomas H. GiebinkDec 29, 1994 7:37 PM
I talked to Eric at Noah Ji's who siad that it is due out in July… He sent me a spec sheet FAX its worth looking at…. It is being manufactured in Germany by Macro systems… I worry about a machine without a large user base so am going to wait and see what happens with MAC. Premiere is WONDERFUL software… the hardware does not keep up with its capabilities. 3rd party boards have real limitaitons even on the high end (too many cooks with too many ideas).. the NUBUS is evidently not well suited to these boards and MAC is going to a PCI bus in the Spring on its PowerPC MACs. If they solve hardware, they've got software…. However, Eric talks about 68060 machine with Retina driving the screen, with V-lab… emplant all integrated for $8000… with sustained data thru on the SCSI bus of 32mg/sec!!!! at peak… more than enough for broadcast quality (8-10 mg/sec+-). BUT the expense of hard drives etc. makes working at that resolution very pricey… I think the future of non-linear for the time-being (3 years+) is in creating edit list (meaning Sempte based, CMX format) for machine based systems as far as video is concerned… but my interest is in production for CD ROM… so am looking for more info on how I can move work developed on the Amiga into the WIN MAC realms… Its easy if you work in MAC land. By the way audio video sync has been addressed (solved?) in the 2.0 version of Vlab according to Eric… Sempte should be out by Mid-spring…. The kind of sequencing you can do in Studio 16 (also a WONDERFUL program… hard & soft ware) can be done via MovieLab (Samplitude is only a sample editor… not a timeline sequencer) The new version of Vlab will evidently allow you to preview your cuts only sequence without doing a "build"… sounds as fluid as Premiere more as I find out more
#180138From: Paul GerhardtDec 29, 1994 5:21 PM
Thomas, Thanks for the info! 🙂 …Warp Engine Engaged… -Paul-
#180076From: Ed VishootDec 29, 1994 8:26 AM
Paul, The VLAB Motion takes over the entire partition – uses it's own special file system. MacroSystems has talked about providing a handler of some sort to allow access to "files" on the partition through AmigaDOS, but it's not here yet <grin>. I highly recommend you use a dedicated hard disk (not just partition) for the video data — video requires high data rates and you are better off if the drive isn't being called upon to do other things while the video is being streamed on/off the drive <hint, hint, wink>. Is the Toccata worth while – depends if you need it I suppose! It was priced better in the package deal for me and I wanted to mess around with 16 bit sounds so I went for it. If you want to do audio and video non-linear style editing with the VLAB Motion, you must have the Toccata because that is the only sound board currently supported <no surprise there, eh?> In my setup, I have a slight audio delay using the combination which could be a problem for you if you are going to be doing a lot of close ups of talking people. I'm hoping this is one of the major things that gets fixed with the rumored upcoming software release. The sound editing system is pretty crude at this point in the evolution of the MovieShop software – all you can do is tag sound files to play/record with the video clips. If you want to edit the sound, you will have to use the Samplitude-MS software provided with the Toccata board. The Toccata has a small mixer built in for 3 stereo line ins with one stereo line out. As best as I can tell, the Toccata only records/playback stereo pairs, so if you want to layer sounds, you will probably have to "mix" them in the Samplitude-MS software or live via the mixer. I haven't actually tried this so don't hold me accountable if the Toccata can actually do more <grin>. I'm starting to get a little self conscience about all the warts I'm highlighting on the VLAB Motion System — they are all the bad parts and don't give the product any credit for the absolutely great video and audio output I've gotten from it! Oh well, hopefully you'll balance this with the demo you get from your dealer. EdV
#180149From: Paul GerhardtDec 29, 1994 6:27 PM
Thanks Ed. I have a number of Imagine rendered anims which I would need to get onto the VL-motion system. How does it handle assembling anims from a series of individual frames? And suppose you store a clip on the vlab system and then need to move on to another project but want to save this clip for future us. Can you copy it off (backup) onto another HD, syquest, or tape drive. Then copy it back when needed later? …Warp Engine Engaged… -Paul-
#180272From: Ed VishootDec 30, 1994 5:45 PM
Paul, You asked about assembling anims on the VLAB just a little too early for me to give you a hands on assessment — I've been "picking my nose" trying to figure out what program to use to generate images to do just that, but have not actually done the procedure (yet!). The user manual talks primarily of individual images (BMP, IFF, RGB8/N, YUVN, PGM, PPM, QRT, SUNRASTER, VLAB, XIPAINT, JPEG formats) and then `sucking' them into MovieShop (the VLAB Motion video editing software), supporting both field and frame rendering! I'm not sure if one can take an already compiled animation and just feed it to MovieShop, but here is a quote from the manual: "So, if your animation is stored in one of the supported file formats: You can directly read the images with MovieShop – no conversion is necessary!" That wording suggests to me one might be able to read compiled anims directly but I certainly wouldn't get my hopes up on this speculation — as long as you have the individual images or can regenerate them you are ready for action! From a hands on experience perspective, the VLAB does a darn good job of outputing individual images from captured video. At a 50 percent JPEG factor, the images I output had terrible JPEG artifacts, but at 75 percent images started to look really good! The procedure to output images went so well that I have a lot of confidence importing images into MovieShop will be just as good and easy <grin>. Storing `scenes' and reloading them is a trivial task for any project you are working on. You end up storing the video stream as an AmigaDOS file on any AmigaDOS partition you want. What it does do to you, however, is make you appreciate the falling prices on large hard discs! A small example: I spent a little time last nite playing with a few of the transitions (shift, flip, and fade) and a little bit of titling on a video clip that was about 15 secs long. Saving out this completed `scene' created an AmigaDOS file that was 7.1Mb big (I was operating at a 50 percent JPEG factor!). Another example: a different video `scene' I digitized and saved out at a 80 percent JPEG factor that ran for about 15 seconds also, cost me 17.1Mb. Well you get the idea — more hard drive space is better <grin>! And remember this is space outside of that already used by MovieShop (a dedicated hard disk if you are a wise one). As for using saved `scenes' later in other projects, it should be obvious now that that is a no brainer <grin>! There is one constrain in doing this however, the project you are working on and the imported `scene' need to be at the same JPEG factor. A little planning could go along way 🙂 EdV
#180345From: Paul GerhardtDec 31, 1994 9:16 AM
Ed, >as long as you have the individual images or can regenerate them you are ready for action! Thanks again for the info! Main Actor (available here on CIS) will load in an anim and save it back out as a series of frames. So I am all set there. …Warp Engine Engaged… -Paul-