CompuServe Thread

#Monitors

19 messages in this thread
#15650From: Paul ToalFeb 21, 1991 10:36 PM
I have a Flicker Free Video board coming soon, but haven't decided on a monitor to use with it. ICD suggests using a VGA monitor. Is there a better choice? Does a MultiSynch offer any visual quality advantages or make it more flexible towards future changes to the Amiga video output. Will WB 2.0 productivity mode and FFV board work on a VGA or Super VGA. If a multisynch is neccesary or desirable is the NEC 3D that much better than the garden variety cheap ($400) ones. Any help sorting this out would be greatly appreciated.
#15695From: Roy PahnkeFeb 22, 1991 10:41 AM
Paul – It is my opinion that you should stick with the MultiSynch type of monitors. Some will say that the VGA's will work with the new varity of Video boards coming out for the Amy, but the MultiSync's will work better. When 2.0 is available and the complete set of Extended Chips – the MultiSync's will work in the new modes, were as the VGA onlys will not. There are alot of good MultiSync's out there – the NEC 3d isn't the only one on the market. I use and sell an Emerson 1420em monitor that I retail for only $375. <– Which is real close to the price of a VGA. – Roy Pahnke – 1.800.76.AMIGA – Crazy Mountain Software – Casper Wyomin'
#15696From: Steve HallFeb 22, 1991 10:42 AM
"VGA Monitor" means multisync. As far as I know, you need a multisync monitor for the flickerFixer or FFV board. I have a flickerFixer with a Mits 1381A multisync 14" monitor and it works great. It also has the advantage of having a composite video in BNC connector on the back, so you can connect a VCR, genlock or anything else that outputs composite video. I don't know about WB 2.0 or the NEC 3D. Hope this helps… – Steve –
#15703From: John PendergrassFeb 22, 1991 11:54 AM
VGA Monitor does NOT mean multisync. VGA is a 31.6 khz monitor, period. Multisync will switch frequencies depending on input. If you ever get the new graphic chips for the Amiga, which have the 'productivity' modes, you will not be able to use them with a VGA monitor. You'll need a multisync that handles all Amiga outs. I have a VGA (not multisync) monitor connected to my FlickerFixer. I WISH I had a multisync, for the above reasons, but also so that I could hook up my regular Amiga RBG port to it (via switchbox, etc). Then I could dump my 1084 monitor that I only keep around to see HAM-E on. –jp–seattle–
#15723From: Mike SchillerFeb 22, 1991 7:17 PM
John: you might want to keep your 1084 around for a while, as I've yet to see a multi-sync (either C='s or my Tatung, or others) that can display Amiga RGB properly without LOTS of adjustments from the settings used by the Flicker fixing devices. I have a Tatung multi-sync that's capable of handling the Amiga scan rates (many multi-sync's can't), but still have a Sony KV-1311 that's hooked upto the RGB port as well as my VCR. -Mike Schiller In sunny Fort Lauderdale
#15797From: John PendergrassFeb 23, 1991 3:26 PM
thanks, I guess I'd assumed that I could get a multisync, and hook it upto a switch box that went between the RGB port, and the FF output. I gather what you mean is that every time I switched I'd have to readjust the monitor to the new mode? Not very satisfying. Oh well, I still like my 1084. (and it serves nicely as a video monitor as well) –jp–seattle–
#15819From: John BianchiFeb 23, 1991 6:38 PM
The Commodore 1950 I use with the A2320 card shows amiga RGB pretty darn good although I use Interlace mostly. *JohnB* CIS:76256,3436
#15857From: Mike SchillerFeb 24, 1991 5:07 AM
Do you also have a Flickerfixer and switch between RGB & FF? I've found that while you can adjust a multi-sync to look good with standard RGB that to do so will usually mess up the picture for Flickerfixeddd (or IBM VGA) displays. About the only monitors that won't do that (that I know of) are the higher end NEC's, as they hold the screen settings according to the Sync rate, so you could adjust the monitor to look good with RGB, then readjust it to look good with Flickerfixed output, then adjust it to look in all the VGA modes, and it'll keep those settings.
#16050From: Steve HallFeb 26, 1991 3:27 PM
Oops…you're absolutely correct. VGA does not mean multisync. I don't know where my mind was when I types that up, but I _do_ work with Macs all day long – I think my brain is starting to decay :^) Again, sorry for the blunder… – Steve –
#15747From: Dominick J. FontanaFeb 23, 1991 1:04 AM
Paul, I have a flickerfixer hooked up to the CBM 1950 monitor. Although it works fine, there is one factor that I didn't see anybody mention in their responses to you. Nobody mentioned it to me before I bought the 1950. A very disturbing trait with the 1950 is it leaves about a one inch black border on the left and right sides of the screen. I am told that this occurs with all multi-sync and VGA monitors. Therefore, it shouldn't really affect your decision as to which monitor to get, but you should be aware of it nonetheless. I find it extremely annoying. When I first got the monitor, I set out to rectify the problem, but after many hours, I still haven't succeeded. I am going to try again shortly. The problem goes like this. You have a left and right black border. If you have a hard drive, you can immediately cure the problem, by changing your Center Screen setting on the hard drive's Preferences. However, when you boot from floppies, the borders are back. The problem is the main reason I still use floppies is for copy-protected games. Most of them don't allow you to change Preferences, and you shouldn't alter a master disk anyway, such as by copying your system-configuration file from the hard disk to the copy-protected game. Accordingly, every time I boot a floppy game, the borders are back and the screen is shifted to the right. A real nuisance. If you are willing and are able to change the Preferences on all your floppies, this will solve the problem. However, if you change monitors, or in some other way are able to eliminate the borders, then you'll have to change the Preferences back to the default on all your floppy disks. I hope this has been of some help. Dom Fontana
#15798From: John PendergrassFeb 23, 1991 3:26 PM
Dominick, personally I LIKE the borders on my FF/VGA combo 🙂 — but seriously, I have had no problems with centering on my system, booting either from HD or floppies. Most floppy preferences are set at the exact midpoint, so just set your HD preferences there, and use the monitor centering controls to center the pic. From then on virtually everything will be properly centered. Worked for me, anyway. (also, at least on my monitor I have eliminated all but about 1/4" border by adjusting the monitors horizontal and vertical image size – this may not be possible on every monitor however) ttfn –jp–seattle–
#15849From: Dominick J. FontanaFeb 24, 1991 12:47 AM
John, The CBM 1950 monitor has vertical sizing and positioning. However, it only has horizontal positioning, but not horizontal sizing. In other words, I can shift the entire screen left or right, borders and all, but I can't expand or contract the blue area of the screen left and right. I even brought the monitor to a service center, and he couldn't change it with the internal monitor controls. In its default state the monitor booted with the screen shifted up and to the extreme left. The vertical problem was easily cured with the monitor controls. The problem is the right side of the screen display ends exactly before the black border starts. Whereas, on the left side there is a big BLUE border. If I shift the screen right to get rid of the black border, the screen is off-center. It's flush right, but with a two inch blue border on the left. If I center the screen, there is just a one inch black border on the right, but not on the left. This is not symmetrical and looks funny. If I had to, I would put up with equal borders on the left and right; but not just one border. Again, changing my hard drive's preferences cured it, but as I mentioned before, I'm hesitant to change the preferences on all of my floppies. I'll try again to use the external monitor controls to center the screen when I boot from a floppy, and then change my hard drive's preferences to accommodate the change. I'll let you know if I'm successful. Thanks. Dom Fontana
#15888From: John PendergrassFeb 24, 1991 1:59 PM
I sympathize with your centering problems. Like I said, mine are pretty much solved, with everything properly centered. Lucky me. But there remain two occaisional problems for me: 1) severe oscan. Different programs handle it differently, which causes odd screen placements. This is particularly evident with the severe HAM-E images I have been looking at recently. I have to change my prefs to keep the cookie in the screen area. 2) video. I have a whole different set of prefs just for when I am recording, to get the video centered. Good luck with your attempts! –jp–seattle–
#15918From: John BianchiFeb 24, 1991 10:47 PM
Domminick, There is a program SETPREFS somewhere on a CIS Amiga Forum that you can include in your disk startup-sequence to get the system-configuration from your harddrive. This way if you 'assign' the harddrive and change preferences, you can always boot and have the new preference changes. Of course, you can copy the system-configuration file to the disk if you wish. I use it for an Amiga 2000 with a non-autobooting 2090 card. Actually, I boot with a very stripped boot disk which just uses Bindriver and Setpatch then runs a startup-sequence file on the harddrive's S directory which I can change without the fear of which disk I boot from. I can change the startup-sequence or preferences without worries. The only hitch: You must copy 'devs:system-configuration' to the boot floppy if you change preferences to Interlaced WorkBench as Setprefs will not do this. PS: Most games I either boot from the game disk or I boot as above, then run the game from floppy disk. I have never had a problem in either case. PSS: Then againg, the only games I get are Simulators, ie: flight, tank, jet, helicopter, etc. *JohnB* CIS:76256,3436
#15820From: John BianchiFeb 23, 1991 6:38 PM
Hmm, even though I use a HD, I have NEVER had a problem with a game due to changing preferences! And my 1950 has no border even though preferences is set the same as it was with my 1080! *JohnB* CIS:76256,3436
#15850From: Dominick J. FontanaFeb 24, 1991 12:50 AM
John, Is your 1950 monitor hooked up to the Microway flickerfixer? Dom Fontana
#15919From: John BianchiFeb 24, 1991 10:47 PM
No, I use the Commodore card: A2320. I did not want to find later problems with ECS chips as I intend to use the new display modes. *JohnB* CIS:76256,3436
#15880From: Steve AhlstromFeb 24, 1991 1:01 PM
Dom, The border is an artifact of the FlickerFixer, not the 1950. ALL monitors used with the FlickerFixer will have this border to one degreee or another. Using the CBM's 2320 or using the 3000 with the 1950 you do not have the border. -sja
#15909From: peter selverstoneFeb 24, 1991 8:05 PM
Steve, the black border is NOT an artifact of the flickerFixer. The A1950 monitor has an overscan switch which eliminates the border with the flickerFixer or any other system which uses the same principle as the flickerFixer such as the A3000 or the A2320. The A1950 is one of the very few monitors which is able to expand the image horizontally so as to eliminate the black border. With most monitors a border is visible with the flickerFixer, the A3000 or any other high scan rate display system. Computer displays which operate at the TV scan rate of 15.75 KHz behave like TV; the image bleeds off the edge of the screen. IBM CGA and the standard Amiga display are examples of this. The reason that other displays do not behave this way is that it is virtually impossible to properly converge an overscanned high resolution display which operates at a high scan rate. In addition, pincusion distortion is usually unacceptable. Every A1950 I have seen shows these problems when set for overscan. I doubt that the monitor was originally designed to operate with such a large horizontal scan angle. There may be some confusion due to the fact that the flickerFixer limits the horizontal display to approximately 716 pixels. This is necessary in order to be compatible with the current model Denise chip. When used with the current Denise, the A2320 displays a moving jagged edge on the right edge of the display. To obtain an acceptable display with the A2320, either it must be used with a monitor which hides the right edge of the display or the ECS Denise must be installed. However, the ECS Denise chip has not been released and is not yet available to A2000 owners. When the ECS Denise is released, Microway will probably sell a replacement PAL chip to permit a wider display. For most users, however, I believe that the expense of the new Denise will not be justified. Peter.