#3D Stereo Images in 3DS
33 messages in this thread
I have been trying to figure out a way to do the Stereo 3D (Red & Blue)
renderings too… Every since I got "Fly the Grand Canyon" from Hyacinth
Inc. I've been addicted to it. Satelite scanned 3D terrain flight
simulator that plays in real time on a PC, amazing! But know I want more,
solid shading, Phong hopefully, but I can't think of a way to merge two FLC
files. I can generate the separate flics with the correct red and blue
colors easy enough. Anyone have any suggestions?
I was fooling around with something like this on 3DS a few weeks ago, but
didn't really have the time to come up with a complete solution. Maybe you
can pick up where I left off and do something. I used ambient light
settings of red, then cyan with two cameras. Rendered the scene from one
camera with red ambient, then with the other camera with cyan. Then I tried
compositing the two images using Xor, or Add, or And ink (one of those
inks). I was getting close. You want the ink to create a dark or black
color where the two images overlap. It helps, also, if you use white as
your background.
Let me know if you come up with a solution. It's not as nice as
liquid-crystal shutter glasses, but it could be fun.
– Jack
(Oh yeah–of course, the compositing was in Animator Pro.)
Jack,
What !?? You mean the automatic generation of red/blue anaglyphs and
LCD stereo field pairs is not one of the new features of 3DSr2 ? All
kidding aside, I think you'd be much better off generating both camera
views in full color and then post processing them to red/blue. I've done
this with Topas from time to time with good results. I think one of my
older Topas stereo images will be in the April issue of CompuServe
Magazine. . . check it out.
Bruce
I'll definitely take a look at it.
– J
Jack,
How do you "Post Process" full color images together? What determines
which pictures pixels get to stay and which ones are dropped?
Mike Morrison
<< Support our profession, play Strike Commander >>
Mike,
I'll not get into the nitty gritty of this since it's gonna be in a
future article in one of MY columns eventually. The easiest way to get
going is simply use a paint program to tint one image red and the other
blue, then use Piclab to combine them. If you put half as much energy into
thinking about this problem as you put into your self promotional efforts
I'm sure you will hit on workable techniques in no time. Enjoy !
Bruce Goren
Good question. I haven't had a lot of success, but check out Drew Wells'
message #9846 for a possible solution.
– J
Just uploaded 3D3D.ZIP, its a first attempt at creating a stereo 3D
animation. This anaglyph animation was created by making a model in 3DS,
and two cameras (both with a 50mm lense, thanks to Bruce Goren). Two
animations were then created, one from each camera, and rendered to
compressed 24bit targa files. Dave's Targa Animator (TGAANI.ZIP from
COMART LIB 17) (kudos to Drew Wells for message #9846) was then used to
combine both flics into one. And Presto! A stereoscopic 3D animation was
born of 3DS. (Is that Self Promotionless enough for you Bruce?)
I am also uploading a 640×480 cross-eyed stereoscopic version of the same
animation for those without Red and Blue glasses. I merged both (320×200)
left and right animations together in Animator Pro. You can view it in 3D
by crossing your eyes, then focusing on the middle image. It is hard to
stay converged on the center image since everything is moving. I prefer
the Anaglyph version myself.
This is the kind of thing I love about CompuServe. That you can e-mail a
whim and have a working solution in a matter of days.
-MM
Mike,
Your 640×480 cross-eyed version for the 3D flic would be much easier to
view if the images were made smaller than 320×200. For this kind of flic I
usually use 160×120 pairs. They're much easier on the eyes. And there's
less danger of having your eyes freeze in that cross-eyed position. 🙂
This size will also work with 3D viewers available from Reel 3D in Culver
City that use magnifying lenses. With the viewer the effect is pretty good.
— Drew
Hi Jack,
There's a program over in the COMART forum called DTA (Dave's Targa
Animator) that will take two sets of left/right Targa images and generate a
red/blue flic from them. It was written by Dave Mason and it does a really
good job, much easier than using red/blue lighting.
This could be done pretty easily with a POCO program, also. Not that I'm
offering to code it, I don't have any extra time right now! 🙂
— Drew
That's good to know. I wasn't having much success with the lighting or with
the compositing. I'll check it out. Thanks.
– J
I looked at the description and at its doc file, but I don't see anything
about generating red/blue flics (or images). Am I missing something here?
– J
You might not have the latest version, TGAANI.ZIP
-MM
Okay, I'll look again…
– J
It looks like Mike gave you the correct solution. Let me know when you've
uploaded one of your animations, I'd like to check it out.
— Drew
Mike,
I've tried also to do it without much success, I've been meaning to bop
over to COMART to see whats going on on this subject. I guess Bruce G.
reveals his secrets over there. Generating R/B images like Jack mentioned,
but the real trick is compositing the images. If you find the magic secret,
please share it with the rest of us who us the Capt'n Crunch glasses.
James
COMART's program FRACTINT does EXCELLENT 3d r&b images. (I too use the Cap
Cap'n Crunch glasses) Fractint will create 3d landscapes from fractals and
if you request, put then into r n' b format for use with "funny glasses" as
they call them. It's really quite cool. Fractint is definately worth the
download.
James,
I believe a few of my older red/blue anaglyph images are still in
the COMART DL's . Search on my name and or PPN in the 3-D and Fractals
sections.
Bruce
James,
Hey! Dump those Captain Crunch Glasses, get a REAL cool pair from
the COMART forum… They have the creature from the black lagoon on them!
You just send them a self addressed stamped envelope and they return a pair
to you in a few weeks. Check out COMART for more details…
Mike Morrison
<< Support our profession, watch TV! >>
Mike,
Ok, Ok, I'll finnaly get over to COMART today. I have been waiting for a
rerun of the ever popular return of the cheesey 3D sci-fi flic. In the last
couple of years they have shown this type of movie a couple of times and
you can get a pair of glasses from the local 7-11.
James
I've been trying to do that type of thing with 3ds also. There's just one
difference between what you're doing and what I'm doing. I'm trying to do
full colour 3d stuff. I've never actually done it, but it works in theory.
You render full colour flics from both camera views. You have to get your
animations to tape though, as there's no way of overlaying them except
through projection onto a screen. Anyway, one of the projectors will have
a polarized lens through which one "eye" of the animation will play
through. Then, your 3d glasses will have one eye made of polarized plastic
to decode the image. That's how they do 3d feature films (or used to
anyway).
What I'm curious about though, is how did you get both cameras made in 3ds
to both have the right FOV for a human and the correct interocular
distance. If the cameras are farther apart than the distance between your
eyes, it won't work.
Aaron
Aaron,
To go to tape with full color stereo you ought to be considering LCD
glasses, one eye per field. There are also some "cheats" you can use to
produce "kinda like full color" anaglyphs. As I mentioned in the Fractint
docs a few versions ago, I usually produce separate right/left full color
images as slides and present them with personal viewers, or project them to
an audience with vintage stereo slide projectors. There is a company called
Reel 3-D in culver city, california that I purchase my stereo supplies and
books from. You might want to contact them for info. I believe thier
address and phone number may also be in the fractint docs.
Bruce
Back in the "Atari Days" Gary, and Tom Hudson, and I produced 3D animated
graphics software with liquid crystal shutter glasses. (I should say
"stereo" instead of 3D–confusing, ain't it?) Anyway, it worked, it was
relatively cheap, and it was fun. But we found there was really no market
for it. It pretty much went the way of "House of Wax" and "The Creature
from the Black Lagoon." It's a novelty for most.
– Jack
Jack,
I agree about the novelty aspect of the "market", except for a few
images I did for Software Toolworks many years ago all my stereo activity
has been without a paying client. I use slide pairs, red/blue singles, as
well as the LCD glasses that came with my "Home 3-D Theatre". I've got some
software that takes two targas and turns them into a red/blue GIF. I also
have some software that combines two targa files into a left/right field
sequential frame.
Bruce
Thanks a lot, I'll check it out.
Well, I tried this about 1 year ago but with 35mm slides and it worked! I
set my two cameras up equidistant from a point in the scene. The targets
were at the same co-ordinate and the cameras were 2 1/2" apart (set up your
units as architectural and use the tape measure) and converging. Just like
your eyes would. I think you could go a little further apart to get an
exaggerated effect but not less. Render the left camera view, then the
right. Have a slide made of each image and hey presto! stereo images! Of
course, you'll need a stereoscopic viewer but the result is pretty
spectacular.
What about field of view for the cameras? Isn't human vision like 80
degrees with each eye or something like that?
Yes you're right. I just used a 50mm lense back then, but now I would
probably set the lenses for 80 degrees. I don't know how significant this
is but the 50mm lenses worked ok.
I just thought of something. Would 3D still work if everything is in
focus? WIth 3ds's cameras, the focus is infinite. In 3d, objects "behind"
other objects should go out of focuc when you focus on the front one.
Aaron
I don't think that matters too much, since the eyes seem pretty forgiving
in many respects. I have seen stereo 35mm slides from real life scenes
where everything (foreground and background) is in sharp focus, the camera
probably using a high f-stop (f22 possibly) and my eyes had no problem with
it. Maybe on extreme closeups it might be a problem. I must confess I've
only produced one pair of stereo images on 3ds (worked very nicely) with
35mm slides as the output, so I'm far from being an expert on the
subject…..
I guess you're right. The 3d files produced with Fractint don't take into
account any focus at all, and they look alright, so maybe it doesn't
matter.
Aaron,
I don't think human sight is so picky about the internocular angle. I've
created many stereo images in AutoShade version 1 and 2, and I experimented
a lot and found that I could converge (using the stereo scopic technique of
forcing each eye to look at a different image on the screen), with
different interowenocularuscky angles. The trouble with that type of
stereo is the resolution problem, since you have to display two complete
images on the screen at the same time. I suppose I could try this with the
newer SVGA flic resolutions… hmmm… as a matter of fact, maybe I'll
have something to upload in the morning…. C U Later…MM
I don't think it's possible to overlay two full colour images and have it
look 3d. They have to be projected with all that LCD and polarized stuff.
Aaron