CompuServe Thread

#DEMONSTRATIVE EVIDENCE

12 messages in this thread
#79902From: STEVE MAYHALLJan 30, 1994 1:59 PM
I'm new to this forum and am looking for advice on software and hardware to produce 3D animated videos. These videos will be used for demonstrative evidence in legal work. Does anyone have experiece using 3D studio for this kind of application?
#79915From: Fred GoldenJan 30, 1994 4:20 PM
Steve, Several of us are in the midst of forming a company to do litigation graphics on a national basis. If you are interested, call me at: 610 275-7054 or write to Fred S. Golden 705 Gawain Rd. Plymouth Meeting, PA 19462-2109 or CIS # 72242,1433
#80026From: STEVE MAYHALLJan 31, 1994 8:10 AM
Fred, thanks for the response. I'll call you to learn more about your plans and how we might collaborate. Regards,
#80046From: Yost GroupJan 31, 1994 10:07 AM
Give a call to Andrew Reese at Autodesk. (415/507-5632) He's in the Tech. Pubs. dept., but also involved in forensic animation.
#80462From: John SerthFeb 1, 1994 7:09 PM
I am a P.E. working full time in highway accident reconstruction and have started using 3ds for photographic measurements and animations. The animations are usefull especially for sight distance/ time and distance questions. I have found that my HP Scanjet IIc is very usefull. It allows the accident photographs to be used as backgrounds in 3d models, identical photos can be mapped onto fixed objects to allow vehicles (also mapped) to move in front of and behind objects in the accident scene creating a realistic vedio. I am not a 3ds expert yet but I like what I have been able to do to date. If I can answer any questions or help you let me know, John
#80737From: Rick MillerFeb 2, 1994 2:52 PM
John: I'm in Oklahoma doing animations for attorneys in this area, where are working from? I have used motion video in animations where the real vehicle goes to a computer vehicle at impact with a computer train. Can you explain how you can take measurements from a photograph using 3DS? Regards……….Rick – Technical Animations
#80764From: John SerthFeb 2, 1994 5:31 PM
Rick, and Nancy Fulton for your next book if you are out there, I am an Engineer working near Albany, NY. While I am sure that I will continue to learn this is how I take measurements from photographs with 3ds: 1. Find the size of the background on your monitor. Do this by scanning graph paper into a tif file, bringing the tif file in as the background and rendering the scene. Count the squares on the graph paper to determine the size of your background. Write this down and save it. 2. Scan a photo into a tif file the exact size as your background. This will require adding a border on two sides and scaling the photo up. The important thing is to have the photo centered on the screen when it is rendered Do not trim and do not allow more than minor tiling as the photo will not be centered. 3. Create a 3d model of the scene. I use auto cadd and dxf into 3ds. The data for the model usualy comes from record plans, surveys or measured points in the field. 4. Cover the 3d objects, usually the road / curb /tree trunks /poles with a material and modify the material in the scene to a 50% transparency. 5. Bring the police photos of the scene in as backgrounds as described above. 6. Create a camera. 7. As you know manual methods involve marking grids on an uncut photo to a vanishing point (center of photo).It is still best to have an uncut photo for the background but if it was basically cut out of the center of the origional negitive it will work. The center of the photo is the place in the model were your camera target should be. Place the camera about where you think the photographer was when the photo was taken. using the photo as the background render the scene. 8. You will see the background through a 3ds model. Adjust the camera position, target position and lens untill the two match up. You are in the same position as the photographer. 9. Objects on 3d surfaces (skidmarks) can be measured by placing an object on the surface and then viewing from above. Objects in space need to be set up with photos from 2 angles. I hope this helps, John
#80968From: Rick MillerFeb 3, 1994 9:43 AM
Very interesting how you are taking measurements from photos using 3DS. What importance do steps 1 & 2 have with the rest of your steps. It seems that if everything lines up in step 8 then you will have the same result? I know I must be missing something. What photo are you referring to in step 2 and when do you use this info in the following steps? For every monitor you would need to do steps 1 & 2 and keep that grid size for future use? In step 9, the scene would have to be flat, no elevation change, to get accurate measurements from the objects on the ground plane, right? Maybe the "x" and "y" coordinates would still be correct, just no "z"? Regards……..Rick – Technical Animations
#81043From: John SerthFeb 3, 1994 1:54 PM
Rick, For my monitor / scanner a 8.5" X 6.3" photograph fills the background on a 3ds sceen. It may be the same for all but it may change for different scanners, I don't know. The important thing is to center the photo. If you stood in the center of a straight flat road and photographed the road aiming your real camera at the point where the road vanishes into the horizon, this point would be in the center of the photo and the paint lines would be ballanced on both sides of the centerline. Next, if you scanned this photo into 3ds and it tiled, the center of the photo would not be in the center of the monitor. Now assume you place the 3ds camera on the centerline of the model and adjust the camera so that the 3ds camera lines up with the offcenter vanishing point on the photo. The edges of the road will not be ballanced in the 3ds model as they are in the photo. You might be able to move the camera to the side of the road and fudge the error but you are not reprodusing the origional conditions. If the expert on the other side explained this to the jury he would probably feel better about his day in court than you would. Very ungood! The photo in step 2 is the photo or photos you use for the backgrounds. What ever you see in a photo is the light coming into the camera from a unique angle. Think spherical coordnates. You don't have to but, if you placed a long cylinder in the 3ds model, you could move and rotate that cylinder so that in the camera viewpoint you would see a circle, the end of the cylinder, on the point of interest in the photo. The cylinder is now covering all of the possible points where the light could have come from. Where the cylinder intersects an object, flat or hill or any 3d object is where the light came from. If you have two different viewpoints think of two cylinders intersecting and measure the x,y,z of objects that you have no measurements to. As with any triangulation, views at 90 degrees from each other are going to be most accurate. After using this method for awile I did find a paper on it S.A.E. paper930904 It explains the theory but l feel it has shortcommings on the practical application. Use his theory and my method.
#81068From: Rick MillerFeb 3, 1994 4:42 PM
John: Extremely informative and interesting subject, thanks a million for the discussion. I'm always interested in such things that relate to my job. Thanks again!! Regards…………..Rick – Technical Animations
#80973From: Yost GroupFeb 3, 1994 10:03 AM
Very interesting technique, John. Is that called "photogrammetry"? (I've heard the term used before.)
#81044From: John SerthFeb 3, 1994 2:04 PM
I suppose it probably is. When I took a photogrametry course back in college we had FORTRAN 77 not 3ds3. I like the look of progress. Much of my experience comes from surveying and optics used in accident reconstruction. Understanding how to do it the old way (by hand) made the 3ds application a welcome improvement and much easier to explain to attorneys.