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· Hardware
#slow fast ram
3 messages in this thread
I have two megs worth of Cardco expansion ram. Everybody tells me that
expansion ram is faster then internal ram. Well all the tests that I have done
with my Amiga show that the Cardco ram is definitely slower. My flight
simulater runs slower, my assembler runs slower, and for next loops in amiga
basic run slower. The biggest difference was the for next loop. The external
ram requires almost 50% more time to run the loop as did the internal ram.
What I would like to know is if anybody else has had the same problem with the
cardco ram or anyother ram?
I have a theory as to why Cardco ram runs slower. The amiga runs at 7.16
mc which means that the access time required to run full speed is 140ns. The
chips in the Cardco expansion are 150ns, which is a little slow so the 68000
has to wait on it. The problem with this theory is that the chips in the
internal ram are also 150ns. I think Commodore probably buys ram chips by the
gross from chip makers and then grades them picking out the 140ns and faster.
They then probably sell the ones that failed to companies like Cardco. This
would explain why the slowness in my Cardco ram. If anybody has there own
theory or just plain knows what the story really is I would appreciate hearing
from you.
The reason for all this concern is I'm trying to decide if it would be
worth it to buy 120ns chips to replace the 150ns chips that are already in the
Cardco expansion. The faster chips are probably very expensive so I don't want
to buy them if it isn't going to make a large difference.
The Amiga accesses RAM every other cycle so you only need 250ns RAM and
the 150ns is just fine. The problem is the way the board is refreshed, it is
introducing it's own wait states and thus slowing it down.
Nothing can be done about this without a redesign.
82 76703,2006 DEM 18 Steve
(18,Steve) Hi Jim — yes, was talkig about you
(18,Larry) the sun does _not_ shine from the nether reaches of Ed's body….
Hi Jim! (Jim N.?)
(18,Larry) contrary to what he would have us believe.
(18,Jim/Spysop) hope you didn't say anything good
O(18,Steve) John, beats me — I just plugged it in and it's been working …
(18,Steve) since…
h Larry. 🙂
(18,Jim/Spysop) Hiya John, yes it is.
(18,Steve) slightly rewrote the startup — but that's it
You're just a user, (18,Mike Jeskin) hey I don't worship ed and bow towards witchita
I know, S(18,Larry) Mike… comfort comes _AFTER_ it formats!
teve. 🙂
(18,Steve) hehehe
(18,Jim/Spysop) well, mine came from C Ltd with a faulty controller….
(18,Mike Jeskin) I just had to compltely redo my drive so I can speak of it now
I had a mysterious read/write error on the Pal, too.
I used Diskdocotr(18,Larry) How do you mean "redo"?
t(18,Jim/Spysop) which I had to resolder the 86 pin connector to get rid of any cold …
or.
(18,Jim/Spysop) joints
It resurrected all the 200 (deleted) AMIC(18,Mike Jeskin) I had to send mine back within the first month…seems the power supply went b
US disk directoryies, creating 20 files named '(18,Mike Jeskin) had it back in 3 days
AmigaBAsicProgs' in the roor(18,Jim/Spysop) Great Q&A when it leaves the factory.
t. It(18,Mike Jeskin) total time
wouldn't validate.
(18,Larry) Well Mike.. I cetainly don't fault a company for "fallout"…
(18,Larry) happens to the best of them.
(18,Mike Jeskin) and I didnt lose a file
(18,Mike Jeskin) old saying…iif it fails it will do so fast or run forever
/user 18
Job User ID Nod Chn Handle/Program
— ———— — — —————-
15 70066,117 NYJ 18 Sam H
22 72237,135 MAD 18 John Foust
42 74156,1346 LTS 18 Mike Jeskin
56 76703,4254 NYY 18 Jim/Spysop
61 76515,1572 HVT 18 Ariel
72 76703,4322 VCR 18 Larry
82 76703,2006 DEM 18 Steve
(18,Mike Jeskin) now it's into the run forever part
the June issue is the Programmer(18,Steve) John, you gonna make recommendations in your article or just 'give …
(18,Steve) the facts'?
's Tools issue…
July is Video, August is Games.
Steve, in (18,Larry) they do work, and can be made to work with other external standalone boxes…
the subjective part that Sheldon Iand I write,
we will(18,Steve) Oh — rumor time (good source) …
come close to recommendations.
(18,Steve) Earl Weaver Baseball to be wrapped up this week
(18,Larry) and the price (for controller alone) is pretty reasonable….
go on, Steve…
I agree, Larry. (18,Steve) Nothing much more than that …
(18,Mike Jeskin) john what did u think of my prediction of the amiga 3000
I think we'll quialaillify thing(18,Steve) it's expected to be put to bed this week ….
s from a price/proef(18,Larry) all that said… what gripes me is the way Ed blames everyone but himself…
^V
I agree, Larry. I think we'll qualify things from a price/proeferformance sta(18,Steve) they guy who did it is the same guy who was workin
ndpoint.
I dont think I (18,Steve) 'camera angle' baseball game that Intellivision advertised heavily a …
saw this prediction, Mi(18,Steve) couple of years ago
ke…
(18,Larry) and basically cons the potential customers before they make a decision.
Ah, no kidding, Steve.
Didn't you see demos at CES?
(18,Ariel) Hello windows
/user 18
Job User ID Nod Chn Handle/Program
— ———— — — —————-
15 70066,117 NYJ 18 Sam H
22 72237,135 MAD 18 John Foust
42 74156,1346 LTS 18 Mike Jeskin
56 76703,4254 NYY 18 Jim/Spysop
61 76515,1572 HVT 18 Ariel
72 76703,4322 VCR 18 Larry
82 76703,2006 DEM 18 Steve
(18,Mike Jeskin) the amiga with no keyboard or mouse just a mine and headset for cranial input
(18,Steve) John, yes — at the EA party …
That wansn't quite 'ca(18,Mike Jeskin) oops not mine mike
mera an(18,Larry) John.. there is a market for the C Ltd stuff.. as well as all the rest….
gle'…
(18,Steve) EA is supposed to be sending me a copy of the finished game…
Ed (18,Steve) later this week
*has* been shipping a lot of drives, after all.
He is (18,Larry) we just need to convince some of them that they can't have the entire market.
a de facto standard, in many ways.
Even if we could show his design is flawed, people must still
acknowledge (18,Mike Jeskin) john to me the key point is who is really shipping
or even work wit h it.
Shipping drives, you mean>?
(18,Sam H) question??? Who is Ed????
Ed Lippert, co-pres of C Ltd(18,Steve) Hey — it's a product that works and is at the right price ….
.
Yes, Steve(18,Steve) people are gonna buy it regardless
… Abel s(18,Sam H) thanks
upply sells it mail order for $770 r(18,Larry) True John, but Ed thinks that any criticism of his product will put him out…
or so.
Oh, thanks for telling me, Larry. Now he'll hate me forever.
(18,Larry) of business, whereas the fact is that informed buyers will still buy.
Sheldon is 'subjective-ing' the Xebec and Micro(18,Mike Jeskin) larry reading the messages it seems like perry's tone is more of a sour grapes
botics,
I get Supra, C Ltd, and Pal jr.
Perry is getting hungry, methinks.
Sour grapes might be welcome at this po(18,Sam H) I saw good remarks about C ltd on another board
int.
(18,Mike Jeskin) I think so too
(18,Steve) ~fO/ex
/user 18
Job User ID Nod Chn Handle/Program
— ———— — — —————-
15 70066,117 NYJ 18 Sam H
22 72237,135 MAD 18 John Foust
42 74156,1346 LTS 18 Mike Jeskin
56 76703,4254 NYY 18 Jim/Spysop
61 76515,1572 HVT 18 Ariel
72 76703,4322 VCR 18 Larry
82 76703,2006 DEM 18 Steve
(18,Mike Jeskin) and john that c-ltd stack in SF was very impressive
(18,Larry) I don't know Mike. He did get sucked in to a low blow battle with Ed….
Yes, Mike… you were there?
(18,Larry) and the fact that Ed stopped behaving like a chiled first put him in a…
(18,Mike Jeskin) yeah thats true but he had to go for it I think
(18,Larry) pretty good light comparitively.
(18,Mike Jeskin) john I am most everywhere on the west coast
Me too, it seems, Mike. 🙂
People are always amazed to learn I live here in Cheesetopia.
(18,Mike Jeskin) will be in reno this weekend getting a divorce from my wallet
(18,Sam H) Where?
(Madison, Wisocnsconsin. 'sconsin, tro in the native tongue.)
(18,Larry) Mike.. do what I do… figure the odds carefully….
(18,Larry) then lose it anyway.
Ha! Larry, as a compouteruter sceientientist, you hsouldshould know (18,Mike Jeskin) larry huh??
better.
I should go write… It has been nive talking wi(18,Larry) Mike… divorce proceedings from wallet.
th all of you. See you (18,Steve) I love going to CES in Vegas …
later?
s/nive/nice
(18,Larry) I know John… but gambling is such fun!
(18,Steve) I very seldomly lose at BlackJack
(18,Mike Jeskin) larry losing at the tables
(18,Steve) 'nite John
(18,Sam H) John>> old line editor???
I don't (18,Larry) Nite John!
lose, when I (18,Ariel) Ok, nice "listening" John!
don't ganmble.
(18,Sam H) night John
(18,Mike Jeskin) but maybe I stay away from them
🙂
/ex
The Amiga accesses RAM every other cycle so you only need 250ns RAM and
the 150ns is just fine. The problem is the way the board is refreshed, it is
introducing it's own wait states and thus slowing it down.
Nothing can be done about this without a redesign.
82 76703,2006 DEM 18 Steve
(18,Steve) Hi Jim — yes, was talkig about you
(18,Larry) the sun does _not_ shine from the nether reaches of Ed's body….
Hi Jim! (Jim N.?)
(18,Larry) contrary to what he would have us believe.
(18,Jim/Spysop) hope you didn't say anything good
O(18,Steve) John, beats me — I just plugged it in and it's been working …
(18,Steve) since…
h Larry. 🙂
(18,Jim/Spysop) Hiya John, yes it is.
(18,Steve) slightly rewrote the startup — but that's it
You're just a user, (18,Mike Jeskin) hey I don't worship ed and bow towards witchita
I know, S(18,Larry) Mike… comfort comes _AFTER_ it formats!
teve. 🙂
(18,Steve) hehehe
(18,Jim/Spysop) well, mine came from C Ltd with a faulty controller….
(18,Mike Jeskin) I just had to compltely redo my drive so I can speak of it now
I had a mysterious read/write error on the Pal, too.
I used Diskdocotr(18,Larry) How do you mean "redo"?
t(18,Jim/Spysop) which I had to resolder the 86 pin connector to get rid of any cold …
or.
(18,Jim/Spysop) joints
It resurrected all the 200 (deleted) AMIC(18,Mike Jeskin) I had to send mine back within the first month…seems the power supply went b
US disk directoryies, creating 20 files named '(18,Mike Jeskin) had it back in 3 days
AmigaBAsicProgs' in the roor(18,Jim/Spysop) Great Q&A when it leaves the factory.
t. It(18,Mike Jeskin) total time
wouldn't validate.
(18,Larry) Well Mike.. I cetainly don't fault a company for "fallout"…
(18,Larry) happens to the best of them.
(18,Mike Jeskin) and I didnt lose a file
(18,Mike Jeskin) old saying…iif it fails it will do so fast or run forever
/user 18
Job User ID Nod Chn Handle/Program
— ———— — — —————-
15 70066,117 NYJ 18 Sam H
22 72237,135 MAD 18 John Foust
42 74156,1346 LTS 18 Mike Jeskin
56 76703,4254 NYY 18 Jim/Spysop
61 76515,1572 HVT 18 Ariel
72 76703,4322 VCR 18 Larry
82 76703,2006 DEM 18 Steve
(18,Mike Jeskin) now it's into the run forever part
the June issue is the Programmer(18,Steve) John, you gonna make recommendations in your article or just 'give …
(18,Steve) the facts'?
's Tools issue…
July is Video, August is Games.
Steve, in (18,Larry) they do work, and can be made to work with other external standalone boxes…
the subjective part that Sheldon Iand I write,
we will(18,Steve) Oh — rumor time (good source) …
come close to recommendations.
(18,Steve) Earl Weaver Baseball to be wrapped up this week
(18,Larry) and the price (for controller alone) is pretty reasonable….
go on, Steve…
I agree, Larry. (18,Steve) Nothing much more than that …
(18,Mike Jeskin) john what did u think of my prediction of the amiga 3000
I think we'll quialaillify thing(18,Steve) it's expected to be put to bed this week ….
s from a price/proef(18,Larry) all that said… what gripes me is the way Ed blames everyone but himself…
^V
I agree, Larry. I think we'll qualify things from a price/proeferformance sta(18,Steve) they guy who did it is the same guy who was workin
ndpoint.
I dont think I (18,Steve) 'camera angle' baseball game that Intellivision advertised heavily a …
saw this prediction, Mi(18,Steve) couple of years ago
ke…
(18,Larry) and basically cons the potential customers before they make a decision.
Ah, no kidding, Steve.
Didn't you see demos at CES?
(18,Ariel) Hello windows
/user 18
Job User ID Nod Chn Handle/Program
— ———— — — —————-
15 70066,117 NYJ 18 Sam H
22 72237,135 MAD 18 John Foust
42 74156,1346 LTS 18 Mike Jeskin
56 76703,4254 NYY 18 Jim/Spysop
61 76515,1572 HVT 18 Ariel
72 76703,4322 VCR 18 Larry
82 76703,2006 DEM 18 Steve
(18,Mike Jeskin) the amiga with no keyboard or mouse just a mine and headset for cranial input
(18,Steve) John, yes — at the EA party …
That wansn't quite 'ca(18,Mike Jeskin) oops not mine mike
mera an(18,Larry) John.. there is a market for the C Ltd stuff.. as well as all the rest….
gle'…
(18,Steve) EA is supposed to be sending me a copy of the finished game…
Ed (18,Steve) later this week
*has* been shipping a lot of drives, after all.
He is (18,Larry) we just need to convince some of them that they can't have the entire market.
a de facto standard, in many ways.
Even if we could show his design is flawed, people must still
acknowledge (18,Mike Jeskin) john to me the key point is who is really shipping
or even work wit h it.
Shipping drives, you mean>?
(18,Sam H) question??? Who is Ed????
Ed Lippert, co-pres of C Ltd(18,Steve) Hey — it's a product that works and is at the right price ….
.
Yes, Steve(18,Steve) people are gonna buy it regardless
… Abel s(18,Sam H) thanks
upply sells it mail order for $770 r(18,Larry) True John, but Ed thinks that any criticism of his product will put him out…
or so.
Oh, thanks for telling me, Larry. Now he'll hate me forever.
(18,Larry) of business, whereas the fact is that informed buyers will still buy.
Sheldon is 'subjective-ing' the Xebec and Micro(18,Mike Jeskin) larry reading the messages it seems like perry's tone is more of a sour grapes
botics,
I get Supra, C Ltd, and Pal jr.
Perry is getting hungry, methinks.
Sour grapes might be welcome at this po(18,Sam H) I saw good remarks about C ltd on another board
int.
(18,Mike Jeskin) I think so too
(18,Steve) ~fO/ex
/user 18
Job User ID Nod Chn Handle/Program
— ———— — — —————-
15 70066,117 NYJ 18 Sam H
22 72237,135 MAD 18 John Foust
42 74156,1346 LTS 18 Mike Jeskin
56 76703,4254 NYY 18 Jim/Spysop
61 76515,1572 HVT 18 Ariel
72 76703,4322 VCR 18 Larry
82 76703,2006 DEM 18 Steve
(18,Mike Jeskin) and john that c-ltd stack in SF was very impressive
(18,Larry) I don't know Mike. He did get sucked in to a low blow battle with Ed….
Yes, Mike… you were there?
(18,Larry) and the fact that Ed stopped behaving like a chiled first put him in a…
(18,Mike Jeskin) yeah thats true but he had to go for it I think
(18,Larry) pretty good light comparitively.
(18,Mike Jeskin) john I am most everywhere on the west coast
Me too, it seems, Mike. 🙂
People are always amazed to learn I live here in Cheesetopia.
(18,Mike Jeskin) will be in reno this weekend getting a divorce from my wallet
(18,Sam H) Where?
(Madison, Wisocnsconsin. 'sconsin, tro in the native tongue.)
(18,Larry) Mike.. do what I do… figure the odds carefully….
(18,Larry) then lose it anyway.
Ha! Larry, as a compouteruter sceientientist, you hsouldshould know (18,Mike Jeskin) larry huh??
better.
I should go write… It has been nive talking wi(18,Larry) Mike… divorce proceedings from wallet.
th all of you. See you (18,Steve) I love going to CES in Vegas …
later?
s/nive/nice
(18,Larry) I know John… but gambling is such fun!
(18,Steve) I very seldomly lose at BlackJack
(18,Mike Jeskin) larry losing at the tables
(18,Steve) 'nite John
(18,Sam H) John>> old line editor???
I don't (18,Larry) Nite John!
lose, when I (18,Ariel) Ok, nice "listening" John!
don't ganmble.
(18,Sam H) night John
(18,Mike Jeskin) but maybe I stay away from them
🙂
/ex