#3DStudio/Topas Prof.
12 messages in this thread
Hi All, forgive me if I'm making a blundering error…I'm new to
Compuserve let alone this forum!!! Question–I'm considering getting
into animation and have had dealer demonstrations on both 3D Studio
and Topas Professional. Both seem to be excellent packages and of
course the respective dealers say what they sell is the best! I'm
hoping that some of you have had experience with both packages and
can give me some objective insight into these packages so that I
don't wind up regretting my choice. All responses will be most
welcome. Thanks in advance, Mike
Suffice it to say that a fair number of people on this forum were
originally using Topas, and have switched to 3D Studio. 3D Studio is
without a doubt, the leading animation package in the PC market.
Topas was doing so bad in the marketplace that AT&T dropped it after
years of selling it as an AT&T product. Crystal Graphics, the
developer, has been working extremely hard to keep the product alive,
but everyday their market share shrinks. There are a number of well
known and documented bugs in Topas that make it difficult to use in a
professional environment, and IMHO if you purchase the product you
should really be looking at it as a write off, because the product
appears to be on it's last leg.
This doesn't even begin to outline the hundreds of reasons that 3DS
is a superior product, but I really feel that Topas is such a failing
product that it overshadows any possible comparisons on a feature by
feature basis.
I have both and use both. Although my base was 3DS since ver 1.0 I
can still say that 3DS is a much more robust package with alot more
versatility, 3rd party accessories and ease of use. You will no
doubt get some on this forum that have used Topas in the past but
their knowledge is somewhat dated and accept their bias based on this
dated knowledge of the product. Second you are on the 3DS forum so
your response is going to be biased as well. I have and use Topas
5.0 the latest out and what CG claims is competitive with 3DSr3. Not
so! So far there are only two types of rendering that Topas 5.0 is
supperior to 3DS and therefore makes it a good "accessory" to keep
around. In Topas one can very easily bend objects beyond 180 degrees
and do page curls and rolls, in 3DS this is extremely difficult but
not impossible. Also Topas 5.0 has the capability to render
refractive raytracing allowing for very realistic looking glass,
lenses, water, chromes, and other shininess. 3DS is not in the same
league when it comes to this quality but I understand there are
developments by third parties on the way but so far it's vaporware.
The downside of Topas is that I have found it very difficult to model
in (I am not an artist) and difficult to set up. It is very hardware
specific for some of the better features but if you have a targa+ it
likes to cooperate well. For the future, Topas a la Crystal Graphics
seems to be struggling with low profits and a questionable future,
but they are very responsive to anyone that purchases their
products. Unlike, Autodesk, that relies on volunteers and the Yost
group for the bulk of support CG is very responsive on the phone and
are improving things with their forum as well with their own Alex Kim
responding. In fairness, Autodesk has improved their response on
this forum in the last 6 months in part due to the very bad rap
Autodesk was getting for not being responsive and many of the local
dealers not being knowledgeable. In my opinion, buy 3DSr3 spend a
few months with it and some of the Yost Group IPAS accessories and
then if CG offers another competitive upgrade like last year, go for
it.
All of us who have used Topas in the past are not outdated on our
opinions. Alot of us have version 5 on the shelf. We feel compelled
to always evaluate the new packages.
You may also be surprised to find out how much CG is courting IPAS
developers to develop add ons for the product. Most of their effort
has been in vain, but it's nice to see them give away free copies to
everyone.
>> Most of their effort has been in vain,
I wasn't aware that you also have ver 5.0 of Topas. While I agree
with about 90% of what you say, Paul, It's comments like the above
that give me the feeling that you like to take pot shots from the
roof top at the competition (Topas). These pot shots sound more like
a political campaign for popularity contest. The question was asked
and I answered with specifics and that is all. I know you paid
mucho$ for the original topas years ago and it in no way compares to
3DSrX. We agree there. But to be in a buyers quandry I would think
specifics of pros and cons would be more meaningful than the pot
shots you like to take occasionally. But then you warned everyone,
didn't you , that you play pretty rough and this is your nice guy
side here on the forum. But newcomers don't know you like the rest
of us so quit firing blanks from the roof top. <TSBG> does this
mean Thick Skinned &Blood &Guts?
BTW: My favorite part of the Super Bowl game was when the coach for
Dallas Cowboys turned down the invite to the Whitehouse from the
President saying "I'll pass, Mr. President; when this is all over I'm
going fishing and scuba diving." I found a new hero. <G> I hope we
get him to coach the Jacksonville Jaguars. He'll like the way we
fish for grouper here in JAX.: 357 Magnum power heads on the end of
a 4 ft. spear shaft.
I really don't consider them pot shots at the competition. I don't
consider Topas competition. Why do you think it's set up from the
stand point of a popularity contest?
I have absolutely no vested interest in people buying 3DS. I just call
them as I see them.<G> I also try not to pull punches.
I feel that the rapidly dwindling market share of Topas and the ever
increasing market share of 3DS happens to be the most relevant
benchmark of how the two programs stack up against one another. Let's
face it, out of the 25 -30,000 users of 3DS out there, a fairly large
portion of them probably directly compared the two products and
ultimately selected 3DS as the better product. I was an extremely
hard sell in the beginning. At the current moment, I feel very
strongly that 3DS is the absolute best production oriented 3D program
on the PC bar none.
Beyond that, I don't really see a buyer's quandry. If an individual
is genuinely interested in getting into 3D animation on the PC
platform, and has a desire to make money at it, then 3DS is the only
choice. Furthermore, depending upon the production work that needs to
be done, 3DS could very well be the best package on any platform.
I've been quoted as saying this in a number of trade magazines, and I
go head to head with workstation based people on a daily basis
arguing the point.
We are currently working on a project that will involve us using both
Wavefront and SoftImage together. We have a number of seats in house
along with a number of SGI workstations. If I did not honestly feel
that 3DS was as good as I say it is, I sure as heck wouldn't be using
it for broadcast work alongside of our other packages. We have no
other 3D based packages on the PC outside of 3D Studio currently in
use. I wouldn't even waste the hard drive space on any other package.
Just to go one step further, I feel very strongly that within a very
short period of time, 3DS will no longer be compared to any program
outside of the SGI realm. It's so good right now that the boundry
lines are extremely thin. My only hope is that it moves out of the
MS-Dos environment so that we can run it on equal ground with the
workstation packages.
CrystalGraphics has certainly been more helpful to third parties than
the AT&T days… but I'm not sure when you're talking about, when
you say they're "courting" developers.
I'm not aware of any Topas plug-in spec. They have awful docs and
sample code for their file format that you have to drag out of them,
and it only covers the current and previous release of the file
format… From my perspective, they have seemed rather disinterested
that Syndesis wants to support their file format in InterChange. Yes,
we have had much more help than we ever had before, and I'm grateful,
but we been "courted" much better than this by other companies.
I sincerely apologize that CG has not gone out of their way to get you
to develop stuff for them, but it is a definate fact that they are
"courting" developers. As a matter of fact, I happen to know first
hand that there are several developers out there right now who are
working on code for them, and they have all been heavily courted. I
would say that maybe you just didn't have anything to offer them that
they felt warranted "courting" you. A very close friend has actually
been talking to them about writing a series of converters for them.
I would venture a guess that what you are "aware of" and what
actually exist may be two totally different things. Once again, did
you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?
I don't pretend to be omniscient, I just thought I'd tell you about
my experience.
Oh No Mike, Here we go again. Lock and load. The sounds of sabers
rattling. You will soon have the feeling that you woke up in Bosnia
as a UN peace keeper. Was that the sound of a AK-47 off in the
distance?
In all fairness, you also need to join the Graphics B Vendor Forum+
and you will find CrystalGraphics in Section 10. You need to pose
this question over there also. The forum also has other manufacturer
sections that will be important to you if you are serious about
animation on PC's. In the mean time, I suggest you stay close to
buildings and if you have to cross an open space, run as fast as you
can staying low to the ground.