#PC Mag
38 messages in this thread
>>Yup, I'm the First Looks editor for PC Mag's Network Edition.
Can i get PC Mag in the UK ?
>>NT wouldn't be *my*, *personal* first choice, either, its true… Most
diplomatic sir <g> actually i like OS/2 a hell of a lot more – still your
all copying my little Amiga <g> Full multitasking since 1988
Cheers
Rob.
D&D Famous last words: "Ok, i'm taking my armour off"
Yeah, I know there's a UK version of the mag, but I honestly don't know how to
get in touch with them. I'll check & get back to you if I find anything
helpful.
BTW – I like OS/2 also, but I do think that all of these vendors could learn a
lot from AmigaDOS.
–MR
Well I'd love to read your learned comments on the computer world <g>
AmigaDOS WAS a very good OS and still is with the advent of KS#, but it
only works so well because of the hardware, without the blitter it would
be as slow and foul as W**dows (well maybe not THAT slow <g>) OS/2 was a
real improvement but it is a shame that it was released at a time when IBM
had no idea about what it was trying to do and so was beaten by The man
from Microsoft.. still maybe it'll start to grab a sizeable market share
as it is currently the superior OS
In my opinion…. <g>
Rob.
D&D Famous last words: "I throw my beer at the wizard"
Maybe, maybe not…
Unfortunately, the secret word is M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G. And IBM is worse at that
than Commodore (sorry, but its a fact). Now that Windows is the de facto
standard operating ENVIRONMENT (NOT an OS), Microsoft is in a very sweet
position. It'll take a lot to unseat them.
–MR
In the last few years, sure.
But IBM got to where they were at their peak because of excellent
marketing and support. It sure as heck wasn't because they had
inexpensive, technically superior solutions.
Even the PC sure seemed to add to their bottom line well through the early
AT days…
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
No argument there, their stock didn't get up to..what? 125+? for nothing. The
fact is that Microsoft is the current king of the hill. IBM w/OS/2 is
definitely the closest OS competitor (and OS/2 does enjoy a substantial market
presence), but NT was very, very, very late–giving OS/2 a huge window of
opportunity (no pun intended <g>) to grab a chunk of the market. It didn't
because MS convinced most of its loyal users to sit tight and wait for 1.5/2
years (or more) for NT to actually hit the shelves–THATS marketing power (and
a missed opportunity for IBM, with the right marketing, they could've shown the
PC market which OS was *really* more powerful & reliable). They're doing it
again with Chicago…
I'm not defending MS–I personally don't like Windows–thats just how it is.
–MR, PC Mag
I think the slide or failure of Chicago might change the fate of OS/2.
Paul
Yeah, it *should* have a dramatic effect. If Chicago is everything its supposed
to be (yeah, OK…), I have to believe that OS/2 is doomed. Already, Windows
for Workgroups is shipping pre-loaded on over 100 vendors PCs. If they do the
same thing with Chicago–and people actually *like* it <shiver>–IBM will have
to respond very quickly to stay afloat. If, on the other hand, Chicago is like,
say Windows 3.0, well…<g>
–MR
Though WFW is being preloaded on machines, that doesn't mean that it is
being used, especially on systems that are used in any sort of business.
The first thing they do is format and load either windows 3.1 or OS/2, and
bag windows for workgroups. It is not well liked in large lans, because
it is not exactly secure or robust.
John
This is not true. WFW 3.11 is not like the original WFW. The new version
is based off of Win 3.1 and if will run like the standard Windows product
if you don't enable any of the sharing portions. Besides, WFW 3.11 is
CHEAPER than standard 3.1 !!! What you said about people eliminating WFW
used to be true, but not anymore. This is the recently released version.
-Jonathan
// Amiga online via Autopilot
\\// MAC Quadra 900 & 486 emulation via Amiga!
We eliminate WFW 3.11… (Actually the PC's we buy don't come with it.
🙂
We're an OS/2 shop for now.
Bob Comer — Flying high and fast with my A1200HD'030 on Autopilot!
From Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
You took the words right out of my mouth. The second rev of WFW is much more
robust & that is the version that is (or will be) pre-loaded on the 100+
vendors' PCs (just to clarify–if anyone cares).
–MR, PC Mag
It's not called Chicago anymore because it's not a secret project if 93%
of all journalists know about it. Now for the good news, Windows 4 (old
Chicago) is dead before it even is finished. The majority of the code
including the graphics routines, is 16 bit. Yep, thats right, the OS that
finally loses the old 8088 anchor of backwards compatibility is going to,
get this, ALSO BE BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE.
Developers are incensed with their latest beta release. The almighty
marketing king has decided to lie and remove the main selling point of
Windows 4, 16 bit code to make more people compatible. No more state of
the art 32 bit OS.
This really is funny. It kills the the most anticipated and much hyped
developement from Microsloth in a long time. Their is no chance of a
release before the end of the year due to monumental setbacks.
I believe a majority of the developers will drop their Windows 4 work. I
feel so sorry for Billy boy's blunder. OS/2 looks like it will soon be
king of the hill.
–Paul < Motorola Inside >
Meanwhile, Novell DOS (DR DOS 7.0) is about to emerge, and the beta
testers say it does preemptive multitasking very nicely on existing boxes.
Ron:
I read last week that Novell is considering including a license for Novell DOS
7.0 with every NetWare 4.01 sold. The license is good for all the stations on
the LAN.
At about 60 USD per DOS upgrade, buying Netware 4 could be a bargin for some.
Paul
Novell DOS 7 = Personal NetWare for the most part, BTW.
DOS 7 is touted to be the *perfect* NetWare client. That may succeed where
previous attempts to market the OS have failed. (With 60%+/- of the network
market, Novell is in a good position to plant its own client OS on desks,
maybe, kinda…)
–MR, PC Mag
Where'd you read that it's mostly 16bit? I hadn't heard that.
Paul
Paul,
Hmmm… You say backwards compatibility like its a bad thing. What a strange
position to take.
I have not actually seen the code (and never will since it isn't my beat) but I
do know that it is almost entirely new, written from the ground up. I can't
confirm or deny the fact that the code is 16-bit, tho. Interesting point.
>>This really is funny. It kills the the most anticipated and much hyped
developement from Microsloth in a long time. Their is no chance of a
release before the end of the year due to monumental setbacks.<<
You can't honestly expect me to believe that you or anyone else out there is
surprised that Windows 4 won't ship on time, can you?! Consider the track
record…
>>I believe a majority of the developers will drop their Windows 4 work. I
feel so sorry for Billy boy's blunder.<<
Well, I know that Lotus and Borland aren't dropping anything. Add their apps to
Microsoft's own and you have a whole lot of market leaders.
>> OS/2 looks like it will soon be king of the hill.<<
It'd be nice, but I've heard that one before.
–MR, PC Mag
Backward compatability _is_ a bad thing if your platform is limited
enough.
-Chris
It is written from the ground up. The source code for the graphics
routines are 16 bit so they are backwards compatible to 8088
machines. Yes, backwards compatible is stupid for a ground up
re-write with a 32 bit OS.
Someone in Borland, my next door neighbor, was concerned when he saw
the 16 bit routines and has stopped his end of the Windows 4
development strategy. I don't know where he sits in the command level
though. Another major developer, owner is my friend, sent the release
back to Microsoft with a real nasty note and is going back to Unix
development.
It may just be that I like underdogs. 🙂
It doesn't seem like MS is nearly as good at marketing as it is at lying.
Perhaps that counts as marketing where the gullible masses of US markets
are concerned…
IBM sometimes spoke falsehoods, but usually they could be written off as
ignorance 🙂 It's really weird to find myself kind of favoring IBM as a
brand name after the way I felt about them pre-90's, but they now have
various hardware and OS that I'd certainly consider buying.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale,
>>It doesn't seem like MS is nearly as good at marketing as it is at lying.
Perhaps that counts as marketing where the gullible masses of US markets
are concerned…<< Uh, no comment…<g>
I fell the same as you about actually considering IBM products now. I really
like OS/2! I *personally* would not buy a ValuePoint (they feel too cheap
and–if a PC can be called this–flimsy!). Their network stuff is getting
better & better, tho.
–MR, PC Mag
Michael,
that's my read of the situation as well. BTW, good mag!
Brian
bjbart@watserv.ucr.edu
Gee, thanks! <g>
BTW – if anyone is *really* that interested in Chicago, check out the March 94
issue of PC Computing (our sister pub).
–MR
Your publication being…. ?
Paul
I'm with PC Magazine's Network Edition. I'm the First Looks editor.
And you?
-MR
Hmmm, IBM worse at marketing then Commodore – it's close, still i think
IBM's starting to work out where it is coming from – FINALLY – lets hope
they can kick Microsoft's butt <g> 'scue the OS/Environment mix up but i
understood that the intention for Cairo was for it to be a complete OS
with a DOS environment…. Hmm, unseating microsoft – how about a very
large bomb ? thats about all i can come up with…
Rob.
AD&D Famous last words: "sorry, what was that?"
IBM definitely is getting better (OK, the Commodore comparison was
bad…Commodore is worse!). What they need, from an objective viewoint, is for
Cairo to fall on its face. They could then (if they move swiftly) grab up
market share… however, they had the same opportunity with NT…
–MR
I hope Cairo flops but i think that Microsoft has such a stranglehold on
the market now (making customers WAIT for NT is quite a feat…) that it
is almost inevitable that it will become a great success…
Alternative uses for floppy disks, Number 1:
Scraping ice of your car windscreen…
Yeah, if history is a guide…
–MR
How big do you think the OS/2 base is, most people in the know apparently
appear to think of OS/2 as the better environment – but i guess there is a
disparity between those who know and those who buy…
Alternative uses for floppy disks, Number 3:
Beer mat
Hmmm… I should know this, shouldn't I? <g> Actually, I *think* that the
latest numbers I saw for OS/2 showed something like 2 million users (I don't
know if thats world-wide or US, tho)
–MR
Yes you should know <g>
2 Million is pretty cool, did IBN ever get round to bundling machines from
OEM's with OS/2 ?
Alternative uses for floppy disks, Number 6:
Bookmark
I have seen a lot more well produced commercials for IBM than I have for
the Amiga. I also see IBM supporting a lot more sporting events.
Having lots of commercials is all well and good, but the point is to make it
clear to the public that the products you have are as good, if not better, then
someone else's. Most of the commercials I've seen for IBM (and , they are
steadily improving their marketing–thanks to Gerstner <sp>) talk about the
AS/400 or the ValuePoint, not OS/2. The AS/400 has a firm market share and is a
curious product line to emphasize considering A) its popularity and B) the
current fascination with down/right-sizing. I guess the point I'm trying to
make is that they blew it and it may be too late for them to make up for their
mistake. OS/2, in my opinion, is a far better OS than Windows (which isn't
really an OS at all). A better marketing attack early on could've convinced the
rest of the market of the same thing.
PS – Maybe the comparison against Commodore wasn't the best choice…they
arguably have the weakest marketing in the US (I was going to say world, but
thats not really true, is it?)
–MR