CompuServe Thread

#Handwritting tail end

35 messages in this thread
#85005From: Christopher MartinFeb 19, 1994 11:12 AM
Wow! The tip on lofting a horizontal wipe through a "handwritting" path was great! I have had lots of fun with this. It came up at a particularly good time for me, because I had an effect required and wasn't certain how I was going to go about it. It turns out that this is a great way to do animated line graphs! I am having a little problem, however. It is true that the selected material for this item must have shinniness turned all the way down to 0? Otherwise I can see edges too early. Also, it is true that only ray traced shadows will generate a shadow that goes along with the object? These I can live with. What I can't is the very end of the object that is exposed the entire time. I tried the suggestion of making the material a decal, but then I get nothing at all. I admit that I've went right to playing with this and missed a bunch of additional messages on this topic. If these were addressed and I missed them I apologize. If so could someone head me in the right direction to find the old thread? Otherwise, are there suggested solutions to handling the very end of the object?
#85051From: MARTIN G FOSTERFeb 19, 1994 4:28 PM
Chris, I haven't seen a solution for the end faces showing on an animated opacity map. I tried deleting the end cap faces with some success. Other than that you could do a video post trick, where you render a still image without the offending object (or a sequence of images, if there is camera motion). Then render your full scene with the writing. Composite them in video post with the scene with writing first, then the scene without second using an rgb mask to just cover the offending portion of the image. The rgb mask would be created in animator pro and would simply be a black screen with a portion of it white where the second image is to mask the first. The timeline for the second would go from the first frame until the point where the writing is almost completely drawn.
#85219From: Christopher MartinFeb 20, 1994 5:12 PM
That's a good idea. I will give it a try. I guess I could also render a background border that includes the end, then render over that, used as a background, and create a matte object to cover the end. But, it just seems like there ought to be an easier way. Any hope in increasing the values in the mapping section of the loft?
#85294From: John K. JordanFeb 21, 1994 12:15 AM
Hello Martin the Foster! I sent the other Martin (Christopher) a message concerning the problem of end faces showing on an animated opacity map. Basically, just use DECAL rather than TILE, and use a vertically moving map (bottom to top) rather than a horizontal one. JKJ
#85306From: MARTIN G FOSTERFeb 21, 1994 1:08 AM
JKJ, I'll give your suggestion a try and see if it works for me.
#85293From: John K. JordanFeb 21, 1994 12:15 AM
Cristopher, >> animated opacity map: >> the very end of the object is exposed the entire time… >> get nothing at all with DECAL… I am curious about this since I have been using DECAL with this method to get rid of the "end" visiblilty and it works fine. What does your "wipe" flic look like? What mapping parameters do you use when lofting? I use a vertically moving flic (white, moving bottom to top), with the white the full width of the flic. AhHa!, this is your problem (I just tried it on my other machine): The upper left pixel (as per the DECAL specs) will always be the transparent color. If you use a horizontally moving flic applied as DECAL, on the first frame (all black), the pixel will be black – all transpanent. On all other frames, the upper left pixel will be white – white will be transparent, black is already transparent, so all is transpanent! Apparently, the ROTATION ANGLE in the Mapping Parameters dialog does not rotate the magic upper-left pixel. The moral of the story: use a vertically moving map, which B.T.W. won't require rotation. (Aside: I make most of my animated maps in 3DS by rendering a flic of some geometry moving in an ortho view.) One side effect of using DECAL instead of TILE: with TILE, a 30 frame animated opacity map (black, increasing to white) will work as expected, increasing opacity until the object is completely visible on frame 29. With DECAL, however, on frame 28, the object is nearly fully opaque, then it suddenly disappears on frame 29! This again is due to the way DECALs work, having their upper-most left bit defining the transparent color. When the flic finally hits the last frame and is totally white, the upper-left pixel is suddenly white and the whole thing gets transparent! If this is important, it may be easy to fix by editing the animated opacity flic in AniPro and coloring the guilty pixel in the last frame. Hope this helps. JKJ PS: Jonas, keeper of wishlist: desire (1) a fix of the dreaded "end of object visible with tiled opacity map" problem, and (2) user-selected opacity color option in addition to the current automatic "upper left pixel" method.
#85350From: Yost GroupFeb 21, 1994 10:51 AM
If you wanted to get really sophisticated, you could render your "wipe" animation as a series of .tga's with alpha, use an .ifl in the material, and you wouldn't have to worry about the "upper-left-pixel" rule because you'd be using alpha instead. – Jack
#85367From: MARTIN G FOSTERFeb 21, 1994 12:23 PM
Jack, you're my hero and a genius to boot. What a simple solution! It may even work too.
#85888From: Yost GroupFeb 23, 1994 11:30 AM
>>…hero…genius… It may even work too. Wow, right- and left-handed compliments all in the same message. <g>
#85913From: MARTIN G FOSTERFeb 23, 1994 12:22 PM
>> Wow, right- and left-handed compliments all in the same message. <g><< ROFL! You're so perceptive. Half way through that sentence and in the middle of my excitement, I realised that I hadn't tested the technique you suggested, so I'd better qualify my excitement. BTW, I still need to test the theory, but my wife is hogging my only 3ds machine with the hardware lock (still doing your tutorials <g>).
#85497From: Christopher MartinFeb 21, 1994 10:04 PM
Wow! Two great ideas. Now I just have to go in tonight!!!! Thanks!
#85550From: John K. JordanFeb 22, 1994 8:08 AM
>>alpha TGAs for animated opacity map…. Great idea, Jack the Idea Man! As per page 9-49 in the Big Book, I see that alpha is used if present, otherwise the upper-left pixel is used for transparency. One could make a set relatively tiny TGAs for this type of animated map. Thanks, I'll try this. J K J PS: Now all we need is that 32-bit FLIC format (with alpha, of course) to keep such a map in one pretty little package.
#85628From: David J. MarksFeb 22, 1994 1:35 PM
>> series of .tga's with alpha… Good idea. You should write a tutorial or something! <g> There are so many ways to tackle a problem, it's hard to always choose the best method.
#85634From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Feb 22, 1994 1:58 PM
David, << it's hard to always choose the best method.>> but once you do, I'd like to see you post a .prj showing off the work and a .txt file explaining the route you took. Looking forward to your uploads. jonas[adesk]
#85697From: John EllisFeb 22, 1994 6:24 PM
David – I second Jonas' comments regarding a .prj and a small text file. I agree there's more than one way to spline a cat. <g> -JE
#85839From: David J. MarksFeb 23, 1994 8:32 AM
I'm working on an example now in my spare time at home <g>. I suspect the mesh will be fairly large because of a look I'm trying to acheive. More details coming as I progress…
#85933From: John EllisFeb 23, 1994 1:11 PM
I'll be interested to see what you come up with. I've been working on a side project that while not handwriting per se requires a similar technique.
#85496From: Christopher MartinFeb 21, 1994 10:03 PM
Your suggestion sounds like the ticket. I was using a horizontal wipe which I rotated 90 degrees in the "S" slot. My wipe was created in AniPro and I took extra precaution to make certain that I had nice full black and white ends. All for not. This dog of a machine I have at home just makes me crazy to run 3DS at home so I will have to wait until tomorrow, but I am so excited to try this out that I'm sure my fingers will beat me in by half-an-hour.
#85610From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Feb 22, 1994 12:27 PM
Christopher, << almost done.. >> Please post your prj when this is all over along with a short description of which of the many techniques you used. I'm looking forward to seeing it in section#9. jonas[adesk]
#85750From: Christopher MartinFeb 22, 1994 9:47 PM
I will post the animated line graph. Today was a frustrating day, but here's what worked the best: A horizontal wipe moving from bottom to top (created in AniPro), with the upper-left most pixel modified in the last frame. Also, the FLC was rotated 180 degrees in the material editor. Using the same FLC in the shininess slot, with the same rotation, allowed me to use a shinny material. I lofted a triangle along the "handwritting" path and the top edge still cases a strange shadow in advance of the "handwritting", but for the most part is looks nice! Upon completion, Iwill upload the file. Thanks for all your help. P.S. Just about everyday, I get the strange "is there, or isn't it" object. It happens mostly when I have created a snapsjot item in the keyframer. The original object goes belly up!
#85806From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Feb 23, 1994 1:57 AM
Christopher, << bellyup…>> I'm looking forward to your successful upload. jonas[adesk]
#86064From: Christopher MartinFeb 23, 1994 10:51 PM
I was going to place it on the board today, but do you ever have one of those days where it's obvious that nothing is obvious? Well, what worked nicely yesterday, has a completely unexpected anomoly plastered across it today. Don't ask me why, but none of the animated line graph worked today. I edited the pixel in the upper left hand corner of the last frame of the animated wipe, and WHAM! Maybe tomorrow!
#86100From: Christopher MartinFeb 24, 1994 1:11 AM
Ah Ha! <insert hard slap to the forehead> I have got to quit playing around with my 3ds.set file! Right before I was to run my animation, I was in the 3ds.set file adding a path and looking for a way to set the default continuity slider for the keyframer to zero, … when I found this cool looking setting for a new subtractive-transparency setting for R3. Of course I has to change it to ON. Bad move without consdering the consequences. After messing with the file for several hours here at home, changing wipe animations and every setting possible in the material editor, it finally came to me! To maintain the "handwriting" effect there are two options: 1. (with new sub-tran) change transparency to ADD; or 2. leave the default for sub-tran to off (like R2). Wow, dosen't it feel great when you finally figure something like that out? <g> By the way, can the default for the continuity value for the keyframer be set to 0 in the 3ds.set? I couldn't find it?
#86166From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Feb 24, 1994 9:35 AM
Christopher, << modifying the default TCB values..>> I don't see it in the 3ds.set. jonas[adesk]
#86307From: Yost GroupFeb 24, 1994 5:06 PM
I think the parameters are:' DEFAULT-TENSION = DEFAULT-CONTINUITY = DEFAULT-BIAS = They were in there at some point. Someone let me know if they still work. – G
#86419From: Christopher MartinFeb 25, 1994 1:05 AM
Will look again, probably scanned too fast and looked only for CON…, and not DEFAULT-CON…
#86512From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Feb 25, 1994 10:03 AM
Gary, << default-continuity,bias,tension = 0 in my 3ds.set >> Keyframer, create dummy, goto frame 10, move dummy, keyinfo dialog box, tcb set at 25. jonas[adesk]
#86522From: Yost GroupFeb 25, 1994 10:29 AM
Then, I'd recommend what Chris said… to set the defaults in the Options box and save a 3DS.PRJ. That'll do it. – G
#86168From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Feb 24, 1994 9:37 AM
<< two ways to get the effect..>> I'm hoping to see two project files uploaded with a short txt file explaining their contents… Thanks for hanging in there.
#86257From: MARK A. MEIERFeb 24, 1994 2:24 PM
Hi Chris, I don't know if this will help or not, but you can change the default continutity from the pulldowns with Info/System Option/Continuity default, and then save the project as 3ds.prj and it will be the default in the future. Mark
#86417From: Christopher MartinFeb 25, 1994 1:04 AM
Thanks Mark, but I'm going to change to default value in the 3ds.set beccause I always forget to make the change until I am partially into keyframing and at that point it's kind of a little late. With the type of motion that I animate, I would rather set continuity to 25 when I need it.
#85390From: David J. MarksFeb 21, 1994 1:00 PM
>> It is true that the selected material for this item must have >> shinniness turned all the way down to 0? No. If you use the same map for your shininess mapping, the highlights on the edges won't show up.
#85498From: Christopher MartinFeb 21, 1994 10:04 PM
That I didn't try, or to be honest even consider. Now I guess I better warm up the car! Hopefully somebody will be looking for something that I might be able to help with. I feel like I just keep taking and taking from you guys. Anybody need some home-made beer receipes?
#85626From: David J. MarksFeb 22, 1994 1:35 PM
>> I feel like I just keep taking and taking from you guys. Don't worry. Most everyone here enjoys answering questions. It's really the best way for US to learn too. We look back at old projects, re-read the manuals, experiment and then try to describe techniques in writing. It's almost always a welcome challenge!
#85748From: Christopher MartinFeb 22, 1994 9:41 PM
Thanks! <g>