CompuServe Thread

>>>>>>>>>I played with an early version of Navigator, but it was too slow, and the graphics were too crude (on a 486-66). How much more data could a DOS/VESA version handle? Could the Navigator be set up more for "interactive rendering" and less for "real time interaction"? If the software provided a simple way of setting up a camera at "A" and looking at "B" and getting a quick rendering it would be more useful to me. <<<<<<<<< Great feedback! I will address these comments out of order…. As to the camera action request, I have been really listening to users on this one. Right now in REL 2 we have an ADAPTIVE mode that lets you fly really fast in wireframe to where you want and when you stop, it renders. This works well for getting around fast. Also views are save-able so you can call back any good view you like. With object LOCKON you basically get the effect of locking the camera target to any object you want (even a dummy object) and then just moving the camera around. You can also explicitly name any X Y Z point to pop the camera to with the GOTO command. LOOKAT will automatically point the camera at any object. FLYTO takes you (the camera) to any specific object from wherever you are now. So there are already some features that allow camera manipulation beyond just real-time flying around. (ADAPTIVE, GOTO, LOOKAT, FLYTO, LOCKON, VP SAVE) But your suggestion is a common one. 3D Studio users like to manipulate camera and target locations explicitly, so I think we will put this feature in before Rel 2 is out of BETA. Current users can get the current BETA Rel 2 version by just asking and signing a BETA site agreement. Yes the graphics on a Vesa card in Rel 1 is only the default VESA driver that shipped in REL 1 of CDK. So it was heavily dithered and slow on a 256 color card. How much more data could a DOS/VESA version handle? ??? Currently, a little better than Rel 1 was, but still not enough to use any kind of model you want. We have looked at most software renderers that are on the market today that speed up normal VGA cards (local bus or PCI bus standard types). Each has it's limitations. We have a new display in DOS that uses the SPEA SP3D libraries in Rel 2 of NAVIGATOR, that is a noticeable improvement in speed, rivaling the old SPEA cards ($ 1700 or so?) but nothing is ever fast enough…… Rendermorphics has a nice renderer, but not compatible with CDK Rel 1 supported compilers. This is a shame, because it seems the best solution so far. They have no plans to our knowledge of making a Metaware version. It is great in the Windows (Visual c++) version and a Rendermorphics display class ships with CDK Rel 2 and is usable if you purchase the Rendermorphics libraries. There is no CDK display class written to my knowledge for RenderWare, and I am told this is because of limitations in RenderWare's library, being made basically for game makers I guess who never actually change the geometry on the fly in-environment, just fly around and play in a predefined world. This won't work for NAVIGATOR because of all the world editing features. If anyone has any different info on this one, please email me about it, but that's the story as I am aware of it. When the new boards are available that everyone keeps promising, perhaps real-time PC rendering will change. The new GLINT based boards look very promising. We will of course support the new Future Vision Technologies Sapphire 2SX board that is supposed to cost less than $ 1000. This is still not the typical VGA card out there today however, so I guess in reality, we just all have to wait 5 years or so until the entire world has recycled there old harward out and put in these new whiz bang high end graphic cards. Its the chicken or the egg problem though. Software can't make it without the hardware and hardware won't be proliferated until there is software that drives the market. It is inevitable though…. When we started development of NAVIGATOR in 1991, there was NO graphics board to run it on….it has always been a leep of faith….. Now the fastest performance is still the FVT Sapphire board (earlier version) ($3500) which gives 15 to 25 frames per second on a model that runs at 3 to 4 frames per second on the old VESA CDK display, that you are familiar with and is in the NAVFlyer posted here on Asoft. This issue of fast displays on VGA is undoubtedly THE most crucial issue to the whole real-time PC industry. We are about to upload 3 new CDK examples. 1. A Faster Dos NAVFlyer with the SP3D display class included. 2. A new NAVFlyer for Windows that uses CDK Rel 2. 3. A demo version of NAVIGATOR Rel 2 that has full functionality on one model only (a city) and has SAVE disabled. ALL display boards will be fully functional by simply reconfiguring so interested people can check out the performance on their specific machine and graphics card. NAVIGATOR Rel 2 DOS version currently supports VGA (CDK VESA, MG-VGA which is SP3D based), SPEA Fireboards, FVT Sapphire boards and Division. We are in the process of making a benchmark matrix using this city model of exactly 1000 polygons to publish a comparison of performance numbers. <<<<and what do you have on the burner? >>>>>>>> NAVIGATOR under Windows……….. Textures…. and other things too exciting to mention <gg> Thanks for the feedback and keep in touch. NAVIGATOR is only end user based, no programming involved, so maybe someday, it will suit your needs. We are working on it and really appreciate your opinions. Angela Pate