CompuServe Thread

#Crossing Edges

18 messages in this thread
#3797From: ZONE3Feb 3, 1995 7:12 PM
Overlapping edges are the single most frustrating thing I've found about ER. Sometimes I have two shapes which are miles apart yet still, somehow have crossed edges. I search frame by frame, increase correspondence points, zoom in, render wireframe previews, etc. etc., and I usually end up having to delete shapes and start over. It would be a HUGE time savings if ER would highlight or indicate in some small way WHERE (and when) the offending edges are taking place. Is that on the upgrade "wish" list yet?? Until then, are there some tips you can give in avoiding these dread goblins of the night? Thanx!
#3814From: ASDGFeb 4, 1995 9:18 AM
Zone (may I call you Zone? I prefer a first name basis 🙂 First a short description of the crossing edge problem: The control information you create (to tell ER what to do with your pixels) is the shapes you draw. When two shapes on the same roll cross you're telling ER that you want the intersecting pixels to go to one place (for one shape) and another place (from the other shape). Actually…it just gelled for me even clearer…in fact you're asking ER to GET pixels from the same place twice (once for one shape, once for the other…as it turns out you can SEND more than one pixel to the same place, the one which will be visible is the one from the shape in a higher layer). Here are some things you can do about (to speed things up): First, if you're doing a morph (as opposed to a morph) you can isolate which roll the cross is occuring in by temporarily turning on the "Don't Render B" in the render options dialog. If the cross is happening in the A roll, you'll still get it in the preview. If you don't get it, the cross is happening in the B roll. Second, if you turn on the JIGSAW setting in the render option dialog, crossing edges should disappear completely since JIGSAW was designed to let edges cross as much as they want BUT…it actually warps either all shapes seperately or all groups seperately…this produces vastly different result than then JIGSAW is not on, but it's easy to master the differences and even use them to good effect (in fact, most TransJammer effects are done in JIGSAW). Third, if you can turn off shapes for the purpose of the warping (where crossing edges happen) individually or in bunches from the shape options dialog. This will let you "delete shapes" as you mention you're doing now without actually deleting them…since once you find the shapes which are making the cross edge, you can fix it, then turn on the shape options for the shapes you disabled while looking for the culprit (without ever having actually deleted a shape). Forth, if you're not in JIGSAW or COOKIE CUT, then shapes which travel off screen/on screen will cause crossing edges without appearing to cross any other shapes. If this isn't in the manual, it definitely is in the on-line help. Fifth, we'll definitely have a cross-hair kind of feature in the next significant ER upgrade. Jason What they got when they crossed my mom with my dad
#3819From: Mei-Tien HsingFeb 4, 1995 10:04 AM
Jason, You explained this rather well. I had similar problems as well. Mei-Tien
#3828From: ASDGFeb 4, 1995 8:28 PM
Mei-Tien, All in a day's work. All in a day's work. Jason Pixel Pixie
#3868From: Mei-Tien HsingFeb 6, 1995 9:43 AM
Jason, Let me try another question on you. I just got Painter 3 also, it is good in painiting and export EPS files, but it does not tween between frames. I have tried to tween in ER and found it is not os easy, I need to carefully trace the entire picture, do you have any suggestions for doing tweening for cartoons inside ER? Or, the best approach you know? Thansk again!! Mei-Tien
#3870From: ASDGFeb 6, 1995 9:48 AM
Tweening in ER is not a very difficult process at all. Assuming you are using a motion sequence, all you need to do is adjust the shape's posittion relative to the motion in a given frame and, whala..you have created a key frame and ER is good enough that is not nescessary to key every frame as it can handle the in-betweens itself. Also, if you like, we can fax you sheet of tips that will help you avoid crossing edges in your project. Chris Edgin ERI Tech.
#3915From: Mei-Tien HsingFeb 7, 1995 8:47 AM
Chris, I will appreciate if someone can fax me the tips for not crossing edges to Mei-Tien Hsing 908 537 7935 * Yes, there is a "*" as the last digit, sometimes it works with out it. I will try tweening in ER again. Mei-Tien
#3928From: Richard LindnerFeb 7, 1995 12:22 PM
Mei-Tien, This is a public forum and you have posted addresses and Phone/Fax numbers for all to see and use as they may see fit…The announcements warn you of this. If you wish, the staff can move the message to a safe area of the forum..Your call. Reply to this thread if you wish it moved. Richard Lindner Forum Staff
#3992From: Mei-Tien HsingFeb 8, 1995 10:06 AM
Richard, Thanks for reminding, please remove my meesage Right Away. Mei-Tien
#3961From: ASDGFeb 7, 1995 9:38 PM
Elastic Reality has been used a great deal for making tweens for animation. Just ask the belly dancing Ritz(r) crackers or the Coke(r) sun :-). You should take key frames from your animation source, probably twice a second (assuming you working with 24 or 30 frame frame rates). Load the project up as if it were a moving morph. Duplicate all the source frames (all A roll images being the same source frame). Do the same for the B roll. Trace the shapes you want to control on the first frame of the A roll. Select them all, then copy (EDIT/COPY) them. Then shift into the B roll and PASTE them on the first image of the B roll. Move to the last image of the B roll then tweak the shapes so they line up on the last image only. In render options set the check box Don't Render B roll. Perform the morph as usual….pixels will be picked up from the A roll where they were supposed to come from and will be deposited in a tweened location between the first key frame (the a roll) and the next key frame (the b roll). You can control the rate of interpolation from the source to final shape using the motion curve for groups you've assigned (if any). And, you can add tweaks to the motion in the B roll if necessary. Jason Ritz Cracker Dance Instructor
#3993From: Mei-Tien HsingFeb 8, 1995 10:16 AM
Jason, Thanks a lot for the best description I have ever had in tweening in ER, however, there are some points I need to clarify: <Trace the shapes you want to control on the first frame of the A roll.> Is this the only way? Since I will produce these figures in Painter 3, I hope I can expprt them as EPS or something that ER like and tweek them into shapes instead of Trace them again. Even with my ArtZ pen, I found it not easy to trace perfectly, never mention the time spent. I really hope there is an even easier way, please. Is there an example of this type of tweening anywhere? Mei-Tien
#4056From: ASDGFeb 9, 1995 9:55 PM
Mei-Tien, Shape importing from other programs is something the programmers are said to be interested in. (Us tech support dweebs sometimes have to gleen such things from the scuttlebut since the hallowed halls of engineering are reserved for the immortals, whack! ok ok back to our oars! stroke! stroke! stroke!) This functionality isn't there now (to import EPS shape definitions) but this could happen int the future. I didn't understand you final question…an example of what kind of tweening where? Jason Three oars from the rear, second guy in
#4077From: Mei-Tien HsingFeb 10, 1995 10:39 AM
Jason, An example of cartoon style tweening done in ER windows was what I was trying to find. Anything available? I saw examples of face morphs etc, not cartoons. Thanks again. Mei-Tien
#4120From: ASDGFeb 10, 1995 9:15 PM
Mei-Tien, The Coca Cola commercial in which the Sun is thirsty and the earth is dry, the sun has a Coke and the earth turns green, is an example of cartoon style tweening done in ER. If you're looking for a worked example (including a project) of cartoon style tweening, I'm afrain we ourselves don't have one we can post. If you're working on a cartoon, maybe you could email us a couple of keyframes and we could do one for you to get the idea. Jason Was not breastfed, and it shows
#4135From: Bruce Herzog, M.D.Feb 11, 1995 8:46 AM
>> Jason >> Was not breastfed, and it shows Love those containers….. Bruce Breast fed in NY
#4157From: Mei-Tien HsingFeb 11, 1995 4:30 PM
Jason, Sure, when I cleaned up a couple keyframes, I will mail to you right away. Thanks a lot for the offer. I wish I have a steadier hand when I do tracing my cartoons. Mei-Tien
#3936From: ZONE3Feb 7, 1995 3:47 PM
Jason, Thanks for the insight. I definitely had edges that did the on-screen/off-screen jig. Your explanation also provided more help. Now its back to the drawing,er morphing board. Thanks Mike R.
#3962From: ASDGFeb 7, 1995 9:40 PM
Zone, You betcha. Let us know if there's anything else we can help you with. Jason Wears white cowboy hat so he must be a good guy