CompuServe Thread

#MIDI Software

42 messages in this thread
#112738From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 8, 1988 4:25 AM
Does anyone have any suggestions on which MIDI interface and software I should purchase. Right now I'm primarily interested in sequencer software and would like to know if anyone has any recommendations for this and other types of MIDI software for the Amiga. Also, the recommended interface to purchase. Thanks, Dom Fontana
#112756From: Richard Rae/SYSOPMar 8, 1988 8:24 AM
If by "sequencer" you mean MIDI real-time recording, SoundScape Pro MIDI Studio, Dr. T's KCS, and maybe Texture II are really the only things available at the moment. AC has run a review on SoundScape previously, and I'm working on the KCS review, so if you have any questions, or can give me a better idea of what you want/need, I'd be happy to chat with you. As to the interface, we'll need to know what your synthesizer setup is and EXACTLY what you intend to do with the system. And what sort of features are important to you? Do you need/want a serial passthrough, for example? Rick
#113046From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 10, 1988 3:24 AM
Rick: My setup consists of a Korg DS-8,Casio CZ-101, and Yamaha RX-15 Drum machine. I make multitrack tapes as a hobby. The only other MIDI software I had was MidiTrack III for the Atari by Hybrid Arts and CZ-Patch, also by them. Besides a sequencer, I was interested in librarian programs for both synths, waveform editors for creating my own patches, some sort of sound digitizing program, a music composition program, and a program that will print musical scores of my compositions. If by a serial passthrough, you mean an extra serial port on the interface, I think I would want that, but I'm not sure. I have the 1010 drive and that already gives me an extra port. However, since I already have a printer hooked up to my parallel port, I would need the serial port on the 1010 for the interface, I imagine. If that is the case, then I definitely want another serial port on the interface. Also, would you know of any products to improve the Amiga's built-in speech synthesis and a low cost way of adding stereo sound to the 1084 monitor? Sorry for all the questions and thanks for your help. Dom Fontana
#113064From: Richard Rae/SYSOPMar 10, 1988 9:44 AM
Whoa Don, hold on right there… you're a bit confused (no slam intended), and we'd better get you straightened out before you make ANY purchase decisions. There is ONLY ONE SERIAL PORT on the Amiga 1000. That connector on the back of the floppy drive is for chaining another drive. So, you're back to having only one serial port. Sorry. 8) The passthrough isn't "an extra serial port on the interface", it's a PASSTHROUGH. There will be a switch somewhere on the box, and you can select MIDI or RS232 operation. You CANNOT use both at the same time. Okay, with that out of the way, if you want/need a serial passthrough you've just restricted yourself to two interfaces. The ECE R&D MIDI Interface gives you one each IN, OUT, and THRU, and a serial passthrough with a front-panel switch. Last time I checked it retailed right at $60.00. The Amazing MIDI interface is a very simple do-it-yourself project which ran in Amazing Computing V2N2. The design as published has two switchable INs, one THRU, two switchable THRU/OUTs, and a serial passthrough with a front-panel switch. You can put this one together for about $20. Since you've included in your "want list" just about every audio product available for the Amiga, I'll save discussion on the rest of it for our continuing conversation, which I imagine will run on for awhile. 8) I would suggest, though, that you pick up some back issues of Amazing Computing… and subscribe. We have a monthly column which deals with audio on the Amiga, and which has reviewed most of the products in which you are interested. I'm writing up Dr. T's librarian/editors right now. (Disclaimer: as an editor for AC, I am biased in my recommendation). Improving the built-in speech synthesis? Have you tried building your sounds from phonemes instead of relying on the translator.device? The latter works remarkably well, but generates crude sounds at times. There's no easy way to add stereo to the 1084. Much easier to pipe your output to an external stereo amp.
#113172From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 11, 1988 12:15 AM
Thanks for straightening me out. I imagine you hook up the MIDI interface to the serial port and then hook up the modem to the interface, with the switch letting you select between the two. I have already subscribed to both Amazing Computing and AmigaWorld. About stereo sound. I didn't want to convert the 1084 to stereo. I thought you might know of some self-powered stereo speakers that were well suited for hookup to the Amiga at a reasonable price. Since I listed so many audio products, let's start with just one. What MIDI sequencer do you recommend for the setup and applications I have in mind? (Korg DS-8; Casio CZ-101; Yamaha RX-15 and SPX-90 for hobbyist 4-Track work). Also, I still don't think I'm clear on the interface. If all the interfaces don't have a serial passthrough, then if you hook them up to the serial port on the back of the Amiga, how do you hook up your modem? I heard that TEXTURE was a good sequencer, but it only worked with the Roland MPU-401 MIDI Interface. Any help would be appreciated. Dom Fontana
#113322From: Richard Rae/SYSOPMar 11, 1988 8:09 PM
Dom, First of all, though you didn't seem to interpret it that way, my apologies for the leadin of my last message… I was typing what I typed jokingly, but in reading it back today, it sounded a bit harsh. You are correct in your imaginings about how the modem and MIDI interface connect. As to your question about interfaces without passthroughs… how do you hook up your modem… you don't. The only options are to not care about a modem, reach 'round behind and swap cables any time you want to change boxes, or buy an external A/B switch. The first option is fine if you don't telecommunicate — some people don't — but it's not viable for the rest of us. The second method is a pain in the posterior, and the third route can be expensive unless you build the switch box yourself. Texture it does indeed use an MPU-401, which doesn't plug into the serial port. IF you go this way, be prepared to spend a large number of dollars… you will need to purchase Texture II, the MPU-401, and an interface to adapt the 401 to the Amiga. Not saying that might not be best for you, but it won't be cheap. Could you give me a bit more information about what you want to do with the sequencer and what features you need? I'm driving my stereo in parallel with my 1080, so I can't comment on powered speakers, but I know others in the forum have exactly what you are asking about. I'm sure someone will offer some opinions. Rick
#113417From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 12, 1988 3:31 AM
Dear Rick, I thought I wanted a top-of-the-line sequencer, but I don't think I want to spend the money for Texture II. I found a store with the ECE interface for ?60.00. I'll probably purchase that. Both of my synths are multi-timbral. The Korg DS-8 has 8 voices and the CZ-101 has 4 voices. I also have the Yamaha RX-15 drum machine and SPX-90 effects processor. I want to be able to program 12 tracks on the sequencer for the synths and also control the drums and FX. In some instances I will record this directly to multitrack together with a guitar. In other instances I will use virtual tracking and only use the sequencer during mixdown. I therefore would like a sequencer with good sync-to-tape capability, a large number of tracks (for future expansion), real-time and step mode editing (as well as all the standard editing features of any good sequencer), a large complement of features, and a very good user interface with a good manual. (Does this sound like I want everything?) Again, there may be some features that I'm not aware of that I'd probably want if I knew they existed. As soon as I decide on a program, I'm ready to buy it with the ECE interface and get started. Thanks, Dom Fontana
#113495From: Richard Rae/SYSOPMar 12, 1988 7:15 PM
Mmm. Well, I can't comment on tape sync capability, as I haven't had a chance to tinker with that much yet. I assume plain vanilla sync will be enough… you don't need SMPTE, do you? Let's see. A large number of tracks can be got from the specs. Real-time and step editing the same. "A large complement of features… good user interface… a good manual" are all sort of relative to the user. The packages which would SEEM to fit your general criteria are SoundScape Pro MIDI Studio, Dr. T's KCS, Microillusions' Music-X, and Dynamic Studio. Everything else (DMCS, Sonix, et. al.) you can disregard because they don't have real-time recording capability. At least that narrows you down to four products. 8) SoundScape has been reviewed in a previous issue of AC. KCS is here being reviewed now, and I'd be happy to chat about it. Music-X STILL isn't shipping, according to my last call to those folks. Dynamic Studio was promised to me a month ago; still no show, but others apparently have it, so it must be shipping. If the ECE will do everything you need, go ahead and buy it now if you wish. Except for Texture, that interface will run with ANYTHING you might decide to purchase. I assume you aren't a hardware person… building your own is out of the question? You can really tailor your box to what you need if you go that route. Rick
#113535From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 12, 1988 11:02 PM
Rick, I'll probably buy the ECE interface. I went to my computer dealer today because he said the MIDI specialist was only in on Saturday. Unfortunately he wasn't much of a specialist. He didn't know that there was a difference between the 16 MIDI channels and the number of Tracks that a sequencer has. He let me see the SoundScape Pro MIDI Studio manual briefly, and in my quick perusal, I could not find the actual number of tracks the sequencer had. The manual kept stating that you could have as many tracks as your memory would allow, but it didn't give an indication of how many this would be in a 1 MEG system. Do you know how many tracks are available with 1 MEG? What do you know about Mimetics' Sound Digitizer. It appears to be a companion to their Pro MIDI Studio. Is it a stand-alone digitizer, or will I need something else (other than a Mic) to utilize it? Thanks, Dom Fontana
#113603From: Richard Rae/SYSOPMar 13, 1988 10:31 AM
You are both right: Pro MIDI Studio does not set an arbitrary limit on the number of tracks you can have. Your question about how many tracks are available with 1 meg of RAM is non-answerable, though. In a 512K system, Pro MIDI will load, but will do basically nothing useful. There really isn't enough room to load anything of any size. So, with 1 meg you can assume you have a bit over 512K free. Now your question sort of assumes that a given amount of space is needed for each track, which isn't valid: track allocation is dynamic. If you're building a piece with all quarter notes, you can probably fit in (as a small friend of my is fond of saying) a gazillion of them. If you're doing 16th note triplets with lots of aftertouch and pitchbend, you're going to eat up memory at a prodigious rate. There are other factors in the equation, too: if you're using Amiga sounds with the MIDI, memory is required to hold those instruments. And some instruments are bigger than others. So, sorry, but there's no easy, direct answer. But 1 meg will let you do quite a lot with Pro MIDI… and even more so if you're using no internal instruments. BTW, that's a disadvantage of KCS: no support for internal instruments. Mimetic's sound digitizer can be used with Pro MIDI or standalone. It comes with the sampler software when you buy it, so you don't need Pro MIDI. Conversely, the sampler software comes with Pro MIDI too, so you can modify samples even if you don't have the sampler itself. It is stand-alone; all you need is a sound source and the software that comes with it. Be advised, though, that the last time I checked, the software did not support stereo recording (although the hardware always has). Rick
#113687From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 13, 1988 6:48 PM
Rick, This is really not that important, but just to set the record straight: Your last message to me concerning Soundscape Pro-MIDI started with the statement, "You're both right". I assumed you meant the so-called MIDI specialist salesman and myself. That's not the case. The salesman did not know what a TRACK was in sequencer software. It's not that he didn't know how many tracks Pro-MIDI had in particular. He did not understand the concept of a track in general. He didn't know anything about sync-to-tape or virtual tracking, etc.. His sole expertise consisted of using Pro-MIDI occassionally with DMCS. The point is he could not help me. The Sound Sampler sounds interesting. I may get that with Pro-MIDI and the ECE interface. I can always get the upgrade if they make the sampler software support stereo. Dom Fontana
#113412From: Barry MassoniMar 12, 1988 3:01 AM
Dom, For self powered speakers check out the Fostex 6301's. I think they run $150 or so a pair. Thye are not sheilded for use near a video display so plan on putting them at least 6" away or else you'll get all kinds of funny colors on your monitor. Barry
#113419From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 12, 1988 3:45 AM
Barry, Thanks, but my setup is such that the speakers are going to be right next to the monitor. Do you know of any shielded self-powered speakers? Dom Fontana
#113592From: Barry MassoniMar 13, 1988 3:37 AM
Dom, I know that there are shielded self-powered monitors made. I don't know any brand and model numbers, nor do I know of any way to shield them. A trip to your local pro audio shop may be in order. Barry
#113682From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 13, 1988 6:29 PM
Barry, I had thought that maybe there was a definitive speaker setup for the 1084 monitor. Or a set of speakers that were being specifically made for the 1084. If such is not the case, then I'll check an audio shop as you recommended. Dom Fontana
#113688From: Doug WingerMar 13, 1988 6:52 PM
Dominick, Good news, bad news. Someone mentioned just what you're looking for on the message base (shielded self-powered speakers) but I cannot remember what message, and I don't think the subject matched the content of the message. You might try reading all the messages from 112900 up to 113100, as I think it was somewhere in that stretch. Doug
#113073From: Ben BlishMar 10, 1988 11:32 AM
Dom; there is a patch editor/librarian here in the data libraries – in DL15, I'm pretty sure – I'm using the CZ230s version, and it's very nice…. there's also a couple hundred patches in there. –Ben–
#113411From: Barry MassoniMar 12, 1988 2:53 AM
Dom, CZL, in DL 15 is a great shareware voice librairian for the CZ sequencers. Barry
#113421From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 12, 1988 3:57 AM
Barry, Thanks for the info on CZL. Dom Fontana
#112906From: Allen MittsMar 9, 1988 1:50 AM
Hi Dom, I just got Dr T's Keyboard Controlled Sequencer. As I used the 64 version extensively, I am right at home. Of course it has a lot of upgraded features (not to mention more event memory), but the basic Open Mode sequencer is the same. The only real problem (that I care to no..make that CAN go into right now) is that Dr T has always been known to be difficult to use. This might put you off a bit if you just want something that you can boot up once in a while and enjoy, but for someone who uses it on a daily basis, it is a powerful tool. Just takes a little longer to get familiar with it, that's all 🙂 I've only had the program 5 days, so I'm still learning all the ins and outs myself, but (for me anyway) it is the ONLY sequencer currently out for the Amiga worth using (oh, I can hear the screams now!). Good luck, Allen
#113050From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 10, 1988 3:46 AM
Allen, What kind of interface does the Dr. T sequencer use? Dom Fontana
#113065From: Richard Rae/SYSOPMar 10, 1988 9:44 AM
Interface? You mean MIDI interface? Anything that plugs into the serial port. Or do you mean user interface? No pull-down menus (the right mouse button doesn't do what you'd expect), few obvious gadgets, plain text with no graphics to speak of. Generally VERY utilitarian and boring. But credit where credit is due: it works. If you want flash and color, buy something else. If you're more concerned with whether or not it WORKS, though, it works. Rick
#113173From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 11, 1988 12:19 AM
Rick, Thanks, but I didn't understand your answer. Probably because I forgot what question you were answering. Dom Fontana
#113284From: Doug WingerMar 11, 1988 5:19 PM
Dominick, Losing track of a thread is easy, so remember the RP (Read Previous) command. It will backtrack for you. (You can also RR, Read Reverse, or RT to go to the start of the thread) Hope this helps, Doug
#113416From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 12, 1988 3:11 AM
Thanks, Doug for refrehing my memory. Dom Fontana
#113323From: Richard Rae/SYSOPMar 11, 1988 8:09 PM
You had asked about the interface on the Dr. T's program. My response tried to cover both bases… MIDI interface and human interface… because I wasn't sure which you meant. I don't blame you for being confused. My ramblings tend to do that to folks. 8) Rick
#113418From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 12, 1988 3:34 AM
Rick, Your last message was crystal clear. Anyway, which MIDI interfaces does the Dr. T's program work with anyway? Dom Fontana
#113496From: Richard Rae/SYSOPMar 12, 1988 7:15 PM
With the exception if Texture II/MPU-401, which is/are a special case… ANY Amiga MIDI interface may be used with ANY Amiga MIDI package. They are completely interchangable and compatible. (Except for one "except": one box has a drum machine sync output on it too… NO ONE supports that output. But then that's not strictly MIDI anyway. 8) Rick
#113537From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 12, 1988 11:05 PM
I'll probably get the ECE interface. I know many of these products have already been reviewed, but I just started my magazine subscriptions and I figured it was faster toi get the info here rather than wait for a back issue to come. Dom Fontana
#113224From: Allen MittsMar 11, 1988 9:05 AM
Rick, Yes..that's the sad part of it: it works, and works well. Too bad about the other half of the coin 🙁 Remind me to tell you what they (Dr. T) told me when I asked them at a NAMM show a couple of years ago about supporting the Amiga. Allen
#113324From: Richard Rae/SYSOPMar 11, 1988 8:09 PM
Say, Allen, I was supposed to remind you to tell me what Dr. T's told you when you asked them at a NAMM show a couple of years ago about supporting the Amiga. 8) Rick P.S. Why is that the *SAD* part? Would you rather have a program that DOESN'T work?
#113415From: Barry MassoniMar 12, 1988 3:06 AM
Rick, Why do a lot of your messages have "8)"'s in them? Barry
#113453From: Doug WingerMar 12, 1988 1:53 PM
Barry, Tilt your head to the left, and all shall be revealed. 😉 Doug p.s. I suppose it's because Rick is a happy cuss. 8)
#113594From: Barry MassoniMar 13, 1988 3:41 AM
Thanks, Doug. (*) (*) ^ \_____/ Barry (~)
#113497From: Richard Rae/SYSOPMar 12, 1988 7:15 PM
Barry! This is the AMIGA forum! Think VISUAL. Think ICONS. Tilt your head to the left and try again. 8) Rick P.S. Hint: I wear glasses. 8D
#113647From: Allen MittsMar 13, 1988 1:43 PM
Rick, I talked with some of the people from Dr. T at the Anaheim NAMM show a couple of years ago. When I asked them if they were planning to do any of their programs on the Amiga, they replied, "No, The Atari ST is a far superior machine, has a built in MIDI interface, and basically just blows away the Amiga. The Amiga probably won't be around long enought for us to even consider it!" I'm about to upload some sequences (tracks, actually) for KCS. Let me know what you think. Allen
#113221From: Allen MittsMar 11, 1988 9:03 AM
Dom, It will use any interface that is designed to be used in the serial port. In my last note to you I neglected to point out another alternative that you might consider: Dynamic Studio. It has a 16 track sequencer that is ideal I think for someone who is learning the ropes so to speak. There aren't alot of commands you have to remember, and the prg is easy to use. To top it all off, there is a drum sequencer in it as well that uses the Amiga's internal voices for the drum sounds. I know you have an RX15, but you might wanna give this prg an audition anyway just for the sequencer portion. Make sure you get V1.1! 1.0 has definite bugs. Also, I talked with the programmer the other day and he said that the program now (V1.1) requires 1 meg of memory. Good luck with your search! Allen
#113420From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 12, 1988 3:56 AM
Allen, Thanks, but I'm not looking for an entry level sequencer. I'm a new Amiga user, but not a new computer user. I had previously used MidiTrack III for about 3 years with my Atari 130 XE, before I sold it. I probably don't want Texture II because it's too expensive. But I do want a top-notch sequencer. I'm now considering Soundscape Pro-Midi Studio with the ECE interface. Dom Fontana
#113648From: Allen MittsMar 13, 1988 1:49 PM
Dom, I have used everything out for the Amiga (except Texture…I couldn't afford it either!) and I would say that Dr T's KCS (even with all my griping about it) is really the most useful for an experienced MIDI user. I did not like SoundScape due to its complicated user interface, although it does have it all over Dr T in the area of multitasking (ie. interfacing other programs with it). I tried running Music Mouse with Dr T, but had no luck. Haven't tried it with SoundScape, but the docs (Music Mouse docs) indicate that it can be done, and of course you can also run DMCS with SoundScape. That is really that only advantage I see with SoundScape. As a performance/recording tool,'t think there is any contest. Again, good luck with your search and let me know what you decide on. Allen
#113689From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 13, 1988 6:58 PM
Allen, I'm leaning toward the Soundscape Pro-Midi with their Sound Sampler and the ECE interface. I'll probably decide soon. Dom Fontana
#112917From: Ben BlishMar 9, 1988 3:07 AM
I use the ECE midi interface, and SoundScape Pro. I like it. –Ben–
#113051From: Dominick J. FontanaMar 10, 1988 3:48 AM
Thanks for the info re ECE interface. Dom Fontana