#MIDI Software
42 messages in this thread
Does anyone have any suggestions on which MIDI interface and software I
should purchase. Right now I'm primarily interested in sequencer software and
would like to know if anyone has any recommendations for this and other types
of MIDI software for the Amiga. Also, the recommended interface to purchase.
Thanks,
Dom Fontana
If by "sequencer" you mean MIDI real-time recording, SoundScape Pro MIDI
Studio, Dr. T's KCS, and maybe Texture II are really the only things
available at the moment. AC has run a review on SoundScape previously, and
I'm working on the KCS review, so if you have any questions, or can give me a
better idea of what you want/need, I'd be happy to chat with you.
As to the interface, we'll need to know what your synthesizer setup is and
EXACTLY what you intend to do with the system. And what sort of features are
important to you? Do you need/want a serial passthrough, for example?
Rick
Rick:
My setup consists of a Korg DS-8,Casio CZ-101, and Yamaha RX-15 Drum
machine. I make multitrack tapes as a hobby. The only other MIDI software I
had was MidiTrack III for the Atari by Hybrid Arts and CZ-Patch, also by
them. Besides a sequencer, I was interested in librarian programs for both
synths, waveform editors for creating my own patches, some sort of sound
digitizing program, a music composition program, and a program that will
print musical scores of my compositions. If by a serial passthrough, you mean
an extra serial port on the interface, I think I would want that, but I'm not
sure. I have the 1010 drive and that already gives me an extra port. However,
since I already have a printer hooked up to my parallel port, I would need
the serial port on the 1010 for the interface, I imagine. If that is the
case, then I definitely want another serial port on the interface. Also,
would you know of any products to improve the Amiga's built-in speech
synthesis and a low cost way of adding stereo sound to the 1084 monitor?
Sorry for all the questions and thanks for your help.
Dom Fontana
Whoa Don, hold on right there… you're a bit confused (no slam intended),
and we'd better get you straightened out before you make ANY purchase
decisions. There is ONLY ONE SERIAL PORT on the Amiga 1000. That connector
on the back of the floppy drive is for chaining another drive.
So, you're back to having only one serial port. Sorry. 8) The passthrough
isn't "an extra serial port on the interface", it's a PASSTHROUGH. There
will be a switch somewhere on the box, and you can select MIDI or RS232
operation. You CANNOT use both at the same time.
Okay, with that out of the way, if you want/need a serial passthrough you've
just restricted yourself to two interfaces. The ECE R&D MIDI Interface gives
you one each IN, OUT, and THRU, and a serial passthrough with a front-panel
switch. Last time I checked it retailed right at $60.00. The Amazing MIDI
interface is a very simple do-it-yourself project which ran in Amazing
Computing V2N2. The design as published has two switchable INs, one THRU, two
switchable THRU/OUTs, and a serial passthrough with a front-panel switch.
You can put this one together for about $20.
Since you've included in your "want list" just about every audio product
available for the Amiga, I'll save discussion on the rest of it for our
continuing conversation, which I imagine will run on for awhile. 8) I would
suggest, though, that you pick up some back issues of Amazing Computing…
and subscribe. We have a monthly column which deals with audio on the Amiga,
and which has reviewed most of the products in which you are interested. I'm
writing up Dr. T's librarian/editors right now. (Disclaimer: as an editor
for AC, I am biased in my recommendation).
Improving the built-in speech synthesis? Have you tried building your sounds
from phonemes instead of relying on the translator.device? The latter works
remarkably well, but generates crude sounds at times. There's no easy way to
add stereo to the 1084. Much easier to pipe your output to an external
stereo amp.
Thanks for straightening me out. I imagine you hook up the MIDI interface to
the serial port and then hook up the modem to the interface, with the switch
letting you select between the two. I have already subscribed to both Amazing
Computing and AmigaWorld. About stereo sound. I didn't want to convert the
1084 to stereo. I thought you might know of some self-powered stereo speakers
that were well suited for hookup to the Amiga at a reasonable price.
Since I listed so many audio products, let's start with just one.
What MIDI sequencer do you recommend for the setup and applications I have in
mind? (Korg DS-8; Casio CZ-101; Yamaha RX-15 and SPX-90 for hobbyist 4-Track
work). Also, I still don't think I'm clear on the interface. If all the
interfaces don't have a serial passthrough, then if you hook them up to the
serial port on the back of the Amiga, how do you hook up your modem? I heard
that TEXTURE was a good sequencer, but it only worked with the Roland MPU-401
MIDI Interface. Any help would be appreciated.
Dom Fontana
Dom,
First of all, though you didn't seem to interpret it that way, my apologies
for the leadin of my last message… I was typing what I typed jokingly, but
in reading it back today, it sounded a bit harsh.
You are correct in your imaginings about how the modem and MIDI interface
connect. As to your question about interfaces without passthroughs… how do
you hook up your modem… you don't. The only options are to not care about
a modem, reach 'round behind and swap cables any time you want to change
boxes, or buy an external A/B switch. The first option is fine if you don't
telecommunicate — some people don't — but it's not viable for the rest of
us. The second method is a pain in the posterior, and the third route can be
expensive unless you build the switch box yourself.
Texture it does indeed use an MPU-401, which doesn't plug into the serial
port. IF you go this way, be prepared to spend a large number of dollars…
you will need to purchase Texture II, the MPU-401, and an interface to adapt
the 401 to the Amiga. Not saying that might not be best for you, but it
won't be cheap.
Could you give me a bit more information about what you want to do with the
sequencer and what features you need?
I'm driving my stereo in parallel with my 1080, so I can't comment on powered
speakers, but I know others in the forum have exactly what you are asking
about. I'm sure someone will offer some opinions.
Rick
Dear Rick,
I thought I wanted a top-of-the-line sequencer, but I don't think I
want to spend the money for Texture II. I found a store with the ECE
interface for ?60.00. I'll probably purchase that. Both of my synths are
multi-timbral. The Korg DS-8 has 8 voices and the CZ-101 has 4 voices. I also
have the Yamaha RX-15 drum machine and SPX-90 effects processor. I want to be
able to program 12 tracks on the sequencer for the synths and also control
the drums and FX. In some instances I will record this directly to multitrack
together with a guitar. In other instances I will use virtual tracking and
only use the sequencer during mixdown. I therefore would like a sequencer
with good sync-to-tape capability, a large number of tracks (for future
expansion), real-time and step mode editing (as well as all the standard
editing features of any good sequencer), a large complement of features, and
a very good user interface with a good manual. (Does this sound like I want
everything?) Again, there may be some features that I'm not aware of that I'd
probably want if I knew they existed. As soon as I decide on a program, I'm
ready to buy it with the ECE interface and get started.
Thanks,
Dom Fontana
Mmm. Well, I can't comment on tape sync capability, as I haven't had a
chance to tinker with that much yet. I assume plain vanilla sync will be
enough… you don't need SMPTE, do you?
Let's see. A large number of tracks can be got from the specs. Real-time
and step editing the same. "A large complement of features… good user
interface… a good manual" are all sort of relative to the user.
The packages which would SEEM to fit your general criteria are SoundScape Pro
MIDI Studio, Dr. T's KCS, Microillusions' Music-X, and Dynamic Studio.
Everything else (DMCS, Sonix, et. al.) you can disregard because they don't
have real-time recording capability. At least that narrows you down to four
products. 8)
SoundScape has been reviewed in a previous issue of AC. KCS is here being
reviewed now, and I'd be happy to chat about it. Music-X STILL isn't
shipping, according to my last call to those folks. Dynamic Studio was
promised to me a month ago; still no show, but others apparently have it, so
it must be shipping.
If the ECE will do everything you need, go ahead and buy it now if you wish.
Except for Texture, that interface will run with ANYTHING you might decide to
purchase. I assume you aren't a hardware person… building your own is out
of the question? You can really tailor your box to what you need if you go
that route.
Rick
Rick,
I'll probably buy the ECE interface. I went to my computer dealer
today because he said the MIDI specialist was only in on Saturday.
Unfortunately he wasn't much of a specialist. He didn't know that there was a
difference between the 16 MIDI channels and the number of Tracks that a
sequencer has. He let me see the SoundScape Pro MIDI Studio manual briefly,
and in my quick perusal, I could not find the actual number of tracks the
sequencer had. The manual kept stating that you could have as many tracks as
your memory would allow, but it didn't give an indication of how many this
would be in a 1 MEG system. Do you know how many tracks are available with 1
MEG?
What do you know about Mimetics' Sound Digitizer. It appears to be a
companion to their Pro MIDI Studio. Is it a stand-alone digitizer, or will I
need something else (other than a Mic) to utilize it?
Thanks,
Dom Fontana
You are both right: Pro MIDI Studio does not set an arbitrary limit on the
number of tracks you can have. Your question about how many tracks are
available with 1 meg of RAM is non-answerable, though.
In a 512K system, Pro MIDI will load, but will do basically nothing useful.
There really isn't enough room to load anything of any size. So, with 1 meg
you can assume you have a bit over 512K free. Now your question sort of
assumes that a given amount of space is needed for each track, which isn't
valid: track allocation is dynamic. If you're building a piece with all
quarter notes, you can probably fit in (as a small friend of my is fond of
saying) a gazillion of them. If you're doing 16th note triplets with lots of
aftertouch and pitchbend, you're going to eat up memory at a prodigious rate.
There are other factors in the equation, too: if you're using Amiga sounds
with the MIDI, memory is required to hold those instruments. And some
instruments are bigger than others. So, sorry, but there's no easy, direct
answer. But 1 meg will let you do quite a lot with Pro MIDI… and even more
so if you're using no internal instruments.
BTW, that's a disadvantage of KCS: no support for internal instruments.
Mimetic's sound digitizer can be used with Pro MIDI or standalone. It comes
with the sampler software when you buy it, so you don't need Pro MIDI.
Conversely, the sampler software comes with Pro MIDI too, so you can modify
samples even if you don't have the sampler itself. It is stand-alone; all
you need is a sound source and the software that comes with it. Be advised,
though, that the last time I checked, the software did not support stereo
recording (although the hardware always has).
Rick
Rick,
This is really not that important, but just to set the record
straight: Your last message to me concerning Soundscape Pro-MIDI started with
the statement, "You're both right". I assumed you meant the so-called MIDI
specialist salesman and myself. That's not the case. The salesman did not
know what a TRACK was in sequencer software. It's not that he didn't know how
many tracks Pro-MIDI had in particular. He did not understand the concept of
a track in general. He didn't know anything about sync-to-tape or virtual
tracking, etc.. His sole expertise consisted of using Pro-MIDI occassionally
with DMCS. The point is he could not help me.
The Sound Sampler sounds interesting. I may get that with Pro-MIDI
and the ECE interface. I can always get the upgrade if they make the sampler
software support stereo.
Dom Fontana
Dom,
For self powered speakers check out the Fostex 6301's. I think they run
$150 or so a pair. Thye are not sheilded for use near a video display so plan
on putting them at least 6" away or else you'll get all kinds of funny colors
on your monitor.
Barry
Barry,
Thanks, but my setup is such that the speakers are going to be right
next to the monitor. Do you know of any shielded self-powered speakers?
Dom Fontana
Dom,
I know that there are shielded self-powered monitors made. I don't
know any brand and model numbers, nor do I know of any way to shield them.
A trip to your local pro audio shop may be in order.
Barry
Barry,
I had thought that maybe there was a definitive speaker setup for the
1084 monitor. Or a set of speakers that were being specifically made for the
1084. If such is not the case, then I'll check an audio shop as you
recommended.
Dom Fontana
Dominick,
Good news, bad news. Someone mentioned just what you're looking for on
the message base (shielded self-powered speakers) but I cannot remember what
message, and I don't think the subject matched the content of the message.
You might try reading all the messages from 112900 up to 113100, as I
think it was somewhere in that stretch.
Doug
Dom; there is a patch editor/librarian here in the data libraries – in DL15,
I'm pretty sure – I'm using the CZ230s version, and it's very nice….
there's also a couple hundred patches in there. –Ben–
Dom,
CZL, in DL 15 is a great shareware voice librairian for the CZ
sequencers.
Barry
Barry,
Thanks for the info on CZL.
Dom Fontana
Hi Dom,
I just got Dr T's Keyboard Controlled Sequencer. As I used the 64 version
extensively, I am right at home. Of course it has a lot of upgraded features
(not to mention more event memory), but the basic Open Mode sequencer is the
same. The only real problem (that I care to no..make that CAN go into right
now) is that Dr T has always been known to be difficult to use. This might
put you off a bit if you just want something that you can boot up once in a
while and enjoy, but for someone who uses it on a daily basis, it is a
powerful tool. Just takes a little longer to get familiar with it, that's all
🙂
I've only had the program 5 days, so I'm still learning all the ins and outs
myself, but (for me anyway) it is the ONLY sequencer currently out for the
Amiga worth using (oh, I can hear the screams now!).
Good luck,
Allen
Allen,
What kind of interface does the Dr. T sequencer use?
Dom Fontana
Interface? You mean MIDI interface? Anything that plugs into the serial
port. Or do you mean user interface? No pull-down menus (the right mouse
button doesn't do what you'd expect), few obvious gadgets, plain text with no
graphics to speak of. Generally VERY utilitarian and boring. But credit
where credit is due: it works. If you want flash and color, buy something
else. If you're more concerned with whether or not it WORKS, though, it
works.
Rick
Rick,
Thanks, but I didn't understand your answer. Probably because I
forgot what question you were answering.
Dom Fontana
Dominick,
Losing track of a thread is easy, so remember the RP (Read Previous)
command. It will backtrack for you. (You can also RR, Read Reverse, or RT to
go to the start of the thread)
Hope this helps,
Doug
Thanks, Doug for refrehing my memory.
Dom Fontana
You had asked about the interface on the Dr. T's program. My response tried
to cover both bases… MIDI interface and human interface… because I wasn't
sure which you meant. I don't blame you for being confused. My ramblings
tend to do that to folks. 8)
Rick
Rick,
Your last message was crystal clear. Anyway, which MIDI interfaces
does the Dr. T's program work with anyway?
Dom Fontana
With the exception if Texture II/MPU-401, which is/are a special case…
ANY Amiga MIDI interface may be used with ANY Amiga MIDI package. They are
completely interchangable and compatible.
(Except for one "except": one box has a drum machine sync output on it too…
NO ONE supports that output. But then that's not strictly MIDI anyway. 8)
Rick
I'll probably get the ECE interface. I know many of these products have
already been reviewed, but I just started my magazine subscriptions and I
figured it was faster toi get the info here rather than wait for a back issue
to come.
Dom Fontana
Rick,
Yes..that's the sad part of it: it works, and works well. Too bad about the
other half of the coin 🙁
Remind me to tell you what they (Dr. T) told me when I asked them at a NAMM
show a couple of years ago about supporting the Amiga.
Allen
Say, Allen, I was supposed to remind you to tell me what Dr. T's told you
when you asked them at a NAMM show a couple of years ago about supporting the
Amiga. 8)
Rick
P.S. Why is that the *SAD* part? Would you rather have a program that
DOESN'T work?
Rick,
Why do a lot of your messages have "8)"'s in them?
Barry
Barry,
Tilt your head to the left, and all shall be revealed. 😉
Doug
p.s. I suppose it's because Rick is a happy cuss. 8)
Thanks, Doug.
(*) (*)
^
\_____/
Barry (~)
Barry! This is the AMIGA forum! Think VISUAL. Think ICONS. Tilt your head
to the left and try again. 8)
Rick
P.S. Hint: I wear glasses. 8D
Rick,
I talked with some of the people from Dr. T at the Anaheim NAMM show a
couple of years ago. When I asked them if they were planning to do any of
their programs on the Amiga, they replied, "No, The Atari ST is a far
superior machine, has a built in MIDI interface, and basically just blows
away the Amiga. The Amiga probably won't be around long enought for us to
even consider it!"
I'm about to upload some sequences (tracks, actually) for KCS. Let me know
what you think.
Allen
Dom,
It will use any interface that is designed to be used in the serial port.
In my last note to you I neglected to point out another alternative that
you might consider: Dynamic Studio. It has a 16 track sequencer that is ideal
I think for someone who is learning the ropes so to speak. There aren't alot
of commands you have to remember, and the prg is easy to use. To top it all
off, there is a drum sequencer in it as well that uses the Amiga's internal
voices for the drum sounds. I know you have an RX15, but you might wanna give
this prg an audition anyway just for the sequencer portion.
Make sure you get V1.1! 1.0 has definite bugs. Also, I talked with the
programmer the other day and he said that the program now (V1.1) requires 1
meg of memory.
Good luck with your search!
Allen
Allen,
Thanks, but I'm not looking for an entry level sequencer. I'm a new
Amiga user, but not a new computer user. I had previously used MidiTrack III
for about 3 years with my Atari 130 XE, before I sold it. I probably don't
want Texture II because it's too expensive. But I do want a top-notch
sequencer. I'm now considering Soundscape Pro-Midi Studio with the ECE
interface.
Dom Fontana
Dom,
I have used everything out for the Amiga (except Texture…I couldn't
afford it either!) and I would say that Dr T's KCS (even with all my griping
about it) is really the most useful for an experienced MIDI user. I did not
like SoundScape due to its complicated user interface, although it does have
it all over Dr T in the area of multitasking (ie. interfacing other programs
with it). I tried running Music Mouse with Dr T, but had no luck. Haven't
tried it with SoundScape, but the docs (Music Mouse docs) indicate that it
can be done, and of course you can also run DMCS with SoundScape. That is
really that only advantage I see with SoundScape. As a performance/recording
tool,'t think there is any contest.
Again, good luck with your search and let me know what you decide on.
Allen
Allen,
I'm leaning toward the Soundscape Pro-Midi with their Sound Sampler
and the ECE interface. I'll probably decide soon.
Dom Fontana
I use the ECE midi interface, and SoundScape Pro. I like it. –Ben–
Thanks for the info re ECE interface.
Dom Fontana