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Here's an interesting tidbit from the 10/27 EET (used without permission).
It's a clip from a viewpoint piece by George Morrow (I assume the George
Morrow of Morrow Micro Designs; they don't say specifically).
In his writings he says "… Jack Tramiel and his company represent an
enigma in the computer business… both the hardware and the operating
system [of the Atari ST] are left-handed to everything else. And that's
not all. The tales of horror that suppliers tell of their dealings with
Tramiel is the stuff from which legends are made."
Fair enough. Later, though, he has this to say: "… there's one
prediction I'm willing to make about Jack: If he's able to raise a bundle
of cash by taking Atari public, he'll use some of it to gain control of
Commodore and fire the bumbs who forced him out a few years back."
Now you can make whatever comments you want about his prediction of whether
JT would try a takeover of Commodore, whether he'd fire his old bosses if
he were successful, whether the ST is "left-handed to everything else", and
whether the "horror stories" are true. In fact we've all discussed these
issues time and again here in the forum.
The real reason I posted this is not spelled out in black and white.
Follow me for a moment: It is Mr. Morrow's opinion that the ST is
"left-handed", I.E., a rather non-standard product with questionable design
features (his opinion, not mine). He also comments about JT treating his
dealers poorly (again, his statement, not mine). Finally, he uses the
phrase "those bums" to label the Commodore execs who, in his words, "forced
him out".
Now, the conclusion: It seems to me that Mr. Morrow is saying that it is
quite alright to design a computer with debateable features and operating
system, and even to mishandle your dealers (the context of the article was
"as long as you keep the customers happy), and that Commodore should never
have let JT go.
I'm interested to see what comments you folks have on this outlook.
Rick,
That has been true since the days of P.T. Barnum. JT doesn't have to
please the dealers and/or suppliers, he only has to have a product that will
sell. Look at his initial moves while with both companies. JT's computer
products were moved into Computer stores where thru various sales pitches, he
convinced them that JT had a better mousetrap. When the dealers discovered he
did have a saleable product, and started to order more. JT started to make
outrageous demands, and dealers that didn't follow the demands had to put up
with incessant rumors of the machines moving into the Mass Market where they
would lose their "golden egg". Didn't matter, JT moved them there anyway.
By that time, the suppliers were getting "Jacked" around but he had
such large orders, for mostly startup-companies, they had to put up with his
nonsense. By the time everyone caught on to his tricks, it was too late.
JT makes great noise about little things. Example, he hasn't denied
the stories that the ST was "created in 6 months from an idea to a product at
January CES". While it is true that JT took over Atari, and 6 months later
showed the ST (a working model)….the fact is that when JT left Commodore, he
formed Tramiel Technology, and TT was working on the ST long before Atari was
given to JT. Atari just gave him a base to market the product from. Look at
the Operating System. GEM, while a good interface, was brand new. The ST is
the first computer to use it as the OS, it is a product of DRI. Once a big
name in the computer field, it was rapidly losing ground to MicroSoft. Both
DRI and Atari needed something "new" to make the dealer's believe in both
companies and JT again. GEM was it. The ST is the testbed for GEM.
Fact is, it is all a matter of timing. JT happen to be (or manuvered
himself to be) in the right place at the right time. Warner was in big trouble
with Atari, DRI needed someone to pick up GEM as the standard OS for their
computer, RAM and CPU prices were the lowest they had been in years, dealers
needed a boost out of the computer slump, suppliers were in the same shape as
the dealers, JT had no company. It was almost a no-lose situation and JT took
advantage of it very skillfully. JT is no slouch, he has great business sense
and the ability to make money….let's give him credit where credit is due. He
creates a perceived need, then fills it. He just doesn't make many friends
along the way.
As far as JT buying Commodore back….no way, at least not now. He
won't have the money after the public offering. He will get somewhere around
45 Million with the public offering. That will be just about enough to pay off
the debt and leave him less than a Million in operating capital (albeit he will
also have no debt). Commodore _WILL_ report (or already has) a 2nd consecutive
profitable quarter, their stock is up on the market 50% over what it was 6
months ago and still climbing. The Amiga has outsold the ST in the US and will
soon be available in large quanities in Europe. The Amiga OS is a lot more
solid now and the software base (of _released_ software) is about equal.
Commodore is committed to the Amiga (as is Atari to the ST) and with
the improved financial picture….I can't see any situation where Atari will
buy Commodore.
NOTE: This is NOT a comparison of the 2 machines! Just comments on JT
and the companies in general. Let's not start another ST vs Amiga war!
Don
Rick,
That has been true since the days of P.T. Barnum. JT doesn't have to
please the dealers and/or suppliers, he only has to have a product that will
sell. Look at his initial moves while with both companies. JT's computer
products were moved into Computer stores where thru various sales pitches, he
convinced them that JT had a better mousetrap. When the dealers discovered he
did have a saleable product, and started to order more. JT started to make
outrageous demands, and dealers that didn't follow the demands had to put up
with incessant rumors of the machines moving into the Mass Market where they
would lose their "golden egg". Didn't matter, JT moved them there anyway.
By that time, the suppliers were getting "Jacked" around but he had
such large orders, for mostly startup-companies, they had to put up with his
nonsense. By the time everyone caught on to his tricks, it was too late.
JT makes great noise about little things. Example, he hasn't denied
the stories that the ST was "created in 6 months from an idea to a product at
January CES". While it is true that JT took over Atari, and 6 months later
showed the ST (a working model)….the fact is that when JT left Commodore, he
formed Tramiel Technology, and TT was working on the ST long before Atari was
given to JT. Atari just gave him a base to market the product from. Look at
the Operating System. GEM, while a good interface, was brand new. The ST is
the first computer to use it as the OS, it is a product of DRI. Once a big
name in the computer field, it was rapidly losing ground to MicroSoft. Both
DRI and Atari needed something "new" to make the dealer's believe in both
companies and JT again. GEM was it. The ST is the testbed for GEM.
Fact is, it is all a matter of timing. JT happen to be (or manuvered
himself to be) in the right place at the right time. Warner was in big trouble
with Atari, DRI needed someone to pick up GEM as the standard OS for their
computer, RAM and CPU prices were the lowest they had been in years, dealers
needed a boost out of the computer slump, suppliers were in the same shape as
the dealers, JT had no company. It was almost a no-lose situation and JT took
advantage of it very skillfully. JT is no slouch, he has great business sense
and the ability to make money….let's give him credit where credit is due. He
creates a perceived need, then fills it. He just doesn't make many friends
along the way.
As far as JT buying Commodore back….no way, at least not now. He
won't have the money after the public offering. He will get somewhere around
45 Million with the public offering. That will be just about enough to pay off
the debt and leave him less than a Million in operating capital (albeit he will
also have no debt). Commodore _WILL_ report (or already has) a 2nd consecutive
profitable quarter, their stock is up on the market 50% over what it was 6
months ago and still climbing. The Amiga has outsold the ST in the US and will
soon be available in large quanities in Europe. The Amiga OS is a lot more
solid now and the software base (of _released_ software) is about equal.
Commodore is committed to the Amiga (as is Atari to the ST) and with
the improved financial picture….I can't see any situation where Atari will
buy Commodore.
NOTE: This is NOT a comparison of the 2 machines! Just comments on JT
and the companies in general. Let's not start another ST vs Amiga war!
Don
I read the same EET article, and it left me with the impression that Mr.
Morrow doesn't really know what he's talking about. The "those bums" that
forced him out, are Erving Gould, the principle stockholder of CBM, who's
been the money behind CBM at least back to the calculator days. As for
whether or not CBM should have let Jack go, I think it was probably wise to
let HIM go, but not the better part of his methods. The company kind of
went on a hiring spree after Jack left, and many of the layoffs were a
return to the "tight ship" approach that had allowed Jack to make money and
devistating price cuts, which put the C64 up there as the world most
popular computer. On the other hand, I personally bid good riddance to
many of Jack's old policies. The fact that Commodore had no computer
dealer network to speak of after Jack left could have easily killed the
Amiga, since it couldn't have possibly been sold through K-Mart and
Toys-R-Us. As for pleasing his customers, there are certainly lots of
folks I've talked to who are long time Commodore loyalists, but there seem
to be (though they rarely talk to me) just as many who'd rather use a Timex
Sinclair then any machine from CBM. The early C64s had an over 20% return
rate (I've heard from dealers that the average for VCRs is around 15% or
less, and I know early last winter the return rate on the C128, the first
post-Jack computer, was down below 5%). Anyway, those are my thought on
that article (no to be confused with any official CBM thoughts). -Hazy
I read the same EET article, and it left me with the impression that Mr.
Morrow doesn't really know what he's talking about. The "those bums" that
forced him out, are Erving Gould, the principle stockholder of CBM, who's
been the money behind CBM at least back to the calculator days. As for
whether or not CBM should have let Jack go, I think it was probably wise to
let HIM go, but not the better part of his methods. The company kind of
went on a hiring spree after Jack left, and many of the layoffs were a
return to the "tight ship" approach that had allowed Jack to make money and
devistating price cuts, which put the C64 up there as the world most
popular computer. On the other hand, I personally bid good riddance to
many of Jack's old policies. The fact that Commodore had no computer
dealer network to speak of after Jack left could have easily killed the
Amiga, since it couldn't have possibly been sold through K-Mart and
Toys-R-Us. As for pleasing his customers, there are certainly lots of
folks I've talked to who are long time Commodore loyalists, but there seem
to be (though they rarely talk to me) just as many who'd rather use a Timex
Sinclair then any machine from CBM. The early C64s had an over 20% return
rate (I've heard from dealers that the average for VCRs is around 15% or
less, and I know early last winter the return rate on the C128, the first
post-Jack computer, was down below 5%). Anyway, those are my thought on
that article (no to be confused with any official CBM thoughts). -Hazy