Real 3D to 3DS
Hi H.B., < Part 1 of 4 >
With respect to your questions about Real 3D vs 3D Studio, here goes:
>> I'm interested in your experiences with Real3D. Besides the modeller, what
other areas impressed you or disappointed you? <<
First of all, the Amiga version is supposed to be more evolved and
stable than the Windows version. I have only used the PC version as I
don't own any Amiga computers any more. However, from my experience
of heavily participating in their beta program, I'm not so sure that
the Amiga version is "quite right" either. However, considering the
extremely complex nature of this program and the current development
team's attitude, I don't know if it will ever be "quite right"……
I could be wrong of course. There is a DEC Alpha early beta version
which runs under NT which is supposedly 6 times faster than the Intel
486-66 version. There is supposedly a beta SGI version as well,
haven't heard much about it though.
The program is a real paradox of sorts, with MANY extremely impressive
features yet many "holes" in the design, hard to imagine considering
how well the positive features are implemented. It is my
understanding that the development team is quite small, operates out
of Finland, and has limited experience formally in animation software
(as opposed to modelling, general mathematics, physics, etc.).
However, they are quite sharp and innovative in many ways. Clearly,
no program like this has previously been available on a "lower-end"
desktop platform(s).
Specifically, the user-designed interface is wonderful and unique.
The hierarchial object-oriented design is generally good and somewhat
unique. Many of the vast animation methods are very good and
well-implemented. The renderer has many fine qualities, but is weak
in some areas – not too slow for a PC raytracer though. Various
features relating to peripheral functions such as undo levels,
macros, display/rendering control, clip boxes, etc. are generally
well implemented. The fact that the program uses parametrically
defined entities for creation and rendering (if you want it to) is
very nice, and results in very pleasing geometry/rendering as well as
realitively small data structures. The boolean operations are
outstanding and immediately calculated. As I said before, the
uniform cubic B-Spline functions are the best and most complete that
I've ever seen.
On the negative side, the material creation/editing is a bit weak and
under- developed. The camera controls are extensive (too
complicated), but not-so-well thought out. The IK functions, as well
as many other of the more advanced animation methods are incomplete,
inconsistent, not fully implemented, buggy, and hard to control. Many
require the RPL programming language for complete control, and the
RPL language is very cryptic and buggy as well. Control for advanced
sampling/filtering is limited and some of the light types are erratic
in their characteristics. Procedural textures are not implemented
well. Complex hierarchial set-ups required for advanced features are
quirky. The display quality and redraw speed/logic is problematic.
Animations involving collision detection take *FOREVER* to calculate
for all but the simplest, most relaxed requirements. CD functions are
inconsistent and buggy as well. There is not an adequate animation
preview system, and no TRUE traditional keyframer. The program does
not currently support many standard file formats, for example, it
currently will not load a Targa file with or without alpha channel.
Texture mapping methods need improvements. There is currently no DXF
output, nor any other model format output, most unfortunate as this
modeller would be highly desireable for most anyone to use and export
data to much more evolved, stable, and complete animation and
post-production app's such as 3D Studio.
Perhaps the most disappointing area of the program is in the
documentation. It is incomplete (especially for a program of this
magnitude and originality), outdated, full of errors, etc.. The
support on the BBS or from the developers is virtually useless. It
was completely useless in my opinion, before I tried to "force"
responsibility upon them. In the process, I believe I made them upset
with me, however also improved things a bit. The developers cannot
take constructive criticism well. They seem to only be interested in
programming what interests them, not neccessarily what is needed.
They seem completely satisfied with their present product and
revenues, with no motivation to make neccessary improvements/changes
to *really* have a chance to seriously compete with a program like
3DS, w/r/t the *OVERALL* picture.
Besides the very fine uniform B-Spline functions (no NURBS) which I
had previously mentioned, the program offers an amazing array of
other fine modelling, editing, and animation tools. Considering the
sheer depth of this program, plus the general knowledge of 3D app's
which someone in your position must posess, the most efficient way of
me attempting to relate a thorough description is to start by simply
listing *SOME* of the program control hierarchy – and believe it or
not, the following list does not transverse the full depth of a given
hierarchy:
CREATE
VISIBLES
Polygon Pyramid Circle Ellipsoid
Polyhedron Cut Pyramid 3P Circle Cut Ellipsegment
Polymid Reg. Polygon Cylinder Hyperbol
Cut Polymid Reg. Polyhedron Cone Cut Hyperbol
Rectangle Reg. Polymid Cut Cone
Cube Reg. Cut Polymid Sphere
SECTORS
Circle Cylinder Cone Cut Cone
Ellipsegment Cut Ellipsegment Hyperbol Cut Hyperbol
COMPOUND TOOLS
Lathe Circular Subdiv. Round.Cir.Subd. Sharp Circular
Rounded Circular Conical Conical Subdv. Rectangular
Rect.Subdv. Rect. Conical Rect.Conc.Subdv.Rounded Polygon
Round.Polyhedron Ellipsed Polygon Ellips.Polyhed. Join Primitives
Object Pixel Tool
FRACTALS
Landscape Trees
BOOLEAN
Or And And Not And w/ Paint
And Not w/Paint Rethink Rethink All Unthink (All)
PARTICLES
Skeleton Volume
STRUCTURE
Level Link Group
Method (Start/End/Phase/Frequency/Time)
PATH ROTATION SWEEP SIZE
STRETCH DIRECTION MOV&DIR CONTROL CURVES
SIMPLE SKEL. SKELETON INV KINEMATIC MORPHING OPEN
MORPH.CLOSED TRANSFORM WAVE RADIAL FORCE
DIRECTED FORC.TANGENT FORCE COLLISION INT COLLISION
FRICTION CREATION PROCESSOR RPL
NOISE ATTRIBUTES
CONTROLS
Attribute Offset Axis Coordsys
Open Line Closed Line Circular Line B-Spline CtrlP
B-Spline Knot B-Spline Curve B-Spline Closed B-Spline Circ.
B-Spline Helix Skeleton (for IK)
BUILD FREEFORM
Mesh Torus Coplanar Orthogonal
Rotate Swing/Move Swing/Size Build from Curves
Mesh-PixelTool Skin Curve Trim Curve Parallel C/S
Extrude Triset from Mesh Font Curve Ext.
MODIFY
LINEAR
Move Extend Deform Move COG
Size 2D Size 3D Stretch Rotate
Mirror Shear Rot&Ext
STRUCTURE
Cut Copy Paste Delete
Duplicate Swap
PROPERTIES
Name Attributes Alpha Chann. Tags
Animation Replace Tags COG Direction
Velocity Spin Size Phys.Attr.
Light.Attr. Skeleton Attr.
COLOR
Current Pallette Named Color
BEND LOCAL
Move 2D Move 3D Move Radial
Size 2D Size 3D Size Radial
BEND GLOBAL
Move 2D Move 3D Move Radial
Size 2D Size 3D Size Radial
BEND ENDPOINT
Move 2D Move 3D Move Radial
Size 2D Size 3D Size Radial
BEND LINEAR
Move 2D Move 3D Move Radial
Size 2D Size 3D Size Radial
BEND CIRCULAR
Move 2D Move 3D Move Radial
NON-LINEAR
Move Size Stretch Rotate
Twist Parabola Linear Circle
Sine Curve Set Tool
SPECIAL
Inv Kinematic Parallel ShrinkWrap Cylidrical S/W Spherical S/W
Normal S/W
COG's
Size 2D Size 3D Stretch Extend
Rotate Mirror Shear Rot&Ext
ABOUT COG's
Size 2D Size 3D Stretch Extend
Rotate Mirror Shear Rot&Ext
FREEFORM
Reparameterize Move Knotpoint Concatenate Swap Dir
Open/Close Type Invert Remap
Surf.to Curves Distribute Assign Exchange U&V
Snap To Delete Insert Break
Set Start Triple Ends
DRAW MODE
Accurate Bounding Box
EXTRAS
VECTORS
Push Pull Enter Clear
Add Subtract Average Average All
Cross Prod. Eval.Current Define Eval. Length Eval.
Lasso Select Lasso DeSelect Push Selected Pull All
UNDO
STATISTICS
REFRESH ALL
Wireframe Raytrace
CANCEL ALL
EVALUATE
Curve Length Parameter
SELECT OBJECTS
FREE IMAGES
TOGGLE TITLE BAR
SETTINGS
CLIP BOXES
Active Select DeSelect RPL
VIEW RESOLUTION
Rot-Pos-Zoom
GENERAL
Aspect Ratio Vector Format Float Format Macro Filename
Drag Delay
UNDO
Active Set Depth Clear
REFRESH
None Current All
OPERATION LEVEL
Active Depth
CREATION
Query Lev.Name Qry.Prim.Name Auto Current Auto Selected
Auto Index
PATHS
ALPHA CHANNEL
ATTRIBUTES
CREATE
PATH
TYPE
Polygonal B-Spline Circle
Interpolate Extrapolate Closed
EVAL
Non-Periodic Periodic Define Phase
DIRECTION
TYPE
Polygonal B-Spline Circle
Interpolate Extrapolate Closed
EVAL
Non-Periodic Periodic Define Phase
ROTATION
Normal About COG's COG's
SWEEP
Normal About COG's COG's
STRETCH
Normal About COG's COG's
SIZE
Normal About COG's COG's
FORCES
RADIAL
Gravity Anti-Gravity Attraction Repulsion
Sinusoidal Strength Formula RPL
DIRECTED
Strength Constant F/(1+Distance) Formula RPL
TANGENTIAL
No Centrifugal Constant F/(1+Distance) F/(1+Dist Sq.)
Strength Formula RPL
FRICTION
Constant Quadric Strength Formula RPL
NOISE
Velocity X,Y,Z Spin X,Y,Z Octaves
CONTROL
EDIT
TIME LINE
CANCEL
VIEW
TYPE
Parallel Perspective Seperate I/O Cam Fly Cam Pos
INPUT PLANE
Set XY Set YZ Set XZ Obj -> I-Plane
ViewCam->IPlane Roll XYZ Hor.Lock Vert.Lock
Reset HotPoint H/P Foward H/P Backward
CAMERA
ViewCam->Camera Create Camera Define Camera Camera View
VIEWCAM
Reset All Reset Scale Position Pos&Zoom In
Pos&Zoom Out Center Auto Focus Set XY
Set YZ Set XZ Set Custom Define X
Define Y Cam->ViewCam IPlane->ViewCam ViewCam Control
GRID
Select Create Modify Reposition
Delete Visible Snap To
RENDER
WINDOW
BOXES
SELECTED
SETTINGS
Mode Dithering Output Ambient
BG BG Grad. Environ. Env.Grad.
Auto Exp. BG Image Env.Mapping Field Render
No BG a/a Color Output File Brightness
Overlight Recursions Dither Scale X Res
Y Res Anti-aliasing Light Samp. Materials Samp.
Subdivisions Width Heighth Pixel H/W
DOF Scale DOF Strength Mem. Useage
EXPORT RPL
RENDER HIERARCHY
DRAWING SETTINGS (Curve Subdiv., Surface Subdiv., Aspect ratio)
Draw V Render Wire Evaluation No Refresh
Ray Trace Controls Coords Ref.CoordSys
Ctrl.Poly Curve Knots Mappings
Names Busy Req. Abs.Grid
BOXES
Define Modify Delete Delete All
SAVE WINDOW
DEBUG TOOLS
SIZE WINDOW
CONTROL WINDOW
LIGHT SOURCES
Point Line Wall Spot Beam
MAPPING
Default Parallel Cylinder Sphere Disk
PROJECT
OBJECTS
Insert Save Replace Font Loader
PROJECT
New Insert Save Replace
Insert Sections Save Sections Replace Sections
MATERIALS
WINDOW
Name Text S-Map UVWH Spline Map
Color Map Bump Map Transp.Map Brill.Map
Shadow Map Clip Map Transp.Color Unshaded
Smooth Exclusive Scope Mask Specularity
Spec.Bright. Brilliance Transparency Turbidity
Turbid Sat. Refraction Roughness Dither
Bump Heighth Effect Handler Prog. X-Freq.
Y-Freq. Transp.R Transp.G Transp.B
Tile XY Flip XY Grade XY
HANDLERS
MAPPING –> Expression
Definition Formula RPL Tilt
Waves Swap XY Noise
SCOPE –> Expression
Definition Formula RPL Sphere
Inv.Square Inv.Exp. Local Temporal Noise
BUMP –> Expression
Default Formula Waves Bumps
RPL Noise
COLOR
Default Formula RPL Bright
Waves Granite Noise Marble
INDEX
Definition Formula RPL PingPong
DELETE
DELETE ALL
INSERT
SAVE
REPLACE
MACROS
Record Execute Curr. Execute Named Replace Curr.
Spread Curr. Curr.to Named Named to Curr. NAMED COLORS
Select Create Modify Delete
Insert Save Replace WINDOWS
Select View RPL Tool
Anim. Pallette Measuring Sys. Mat.Preview
Color Close ENVIRONMENT
Insert Save Replace Save Screen
Screen Pall. Exit
< Part 3 of 4 > Like I said, this isn't nearly
everything but my fingers and eyes are killing me at this point ! <g>
>> Would you recommend it on any level as a adjunct (or competitor) to
3DS? <<
As a competitor, no. Considering the *whole picture*, from "soup to
nuts", involving everything required to go out to tape, 3DS (which
I'm not saying is perfect) blows this program or any other "desktop"
program away. With the upcoming IPAS 3 routines mentioned here, my
statement becomes even more concrete. Please bear in mind, I am no
long-established 3DS fanatic, I am just now getting in to actually
using the program, although I've owned it for quite a while. I do
however know enough about the program and all competing programs to
make these statements I believe.
As an augmentation for use *with* 3DS or other programs – absolutely !
If someone could develop a strong, well-implemented converter from
R3D to 3DS, the combination would be incredible. I believe John Foust
misinterpreted my comments here regarding this matter. As he replied,
most people like (me) have dumped R3D….. this is *ONLY* because
there are no model converters available, and the rest of the program
has problems galore. I've been meaning to get back to him on this. I,
as well as many other people would use the combination I'm sure if
such a product existed and was of the highest quality. And to boot,
you'd have the other program features which can be used to some degree
and probably will get better with time.
>> Have you considered gathering your thoughts and posting a review?
<<
Well, uh… I guess I just did. W/R/T gathering my thoughts, this was
knocked out in a big hurry, probably has many ommissions, and was not
proofread – so my apologies to you for that. Also, I hope I have not
"done wrong" by posting this extensive reply to this message base. If
I have, my apologies again, and to the powers that be – please feel
free to remove it if you so desire.
I hope this has been of some use/help to you H.B., and I look foward
to speaking with you again in the future.
p.s. – Hey Jonas ! Would you mind including everything here not
already incorporated in 3DS in the WishList <BG> JUST KIDDING ! SORRY