CompuServe Thread

#Boolean help needed

16 messages in this thread
#156294From: John N. JordanFeb 28, 1995 10:34 PM
I have a pipe, made out of two cylinders stuck together, one smaller than the other, and revealing itself inside the larger one. (easy way to do 2 textures) Now I'm trying to chop them up some. One I'm trying to cut in half, like a c shaped pipe- half missing. The other I'm trying to cut the top off at an angle. I tried cutting the pipes apart with a basic cube, but it kept giving me errors. I moved it about alot, and consulted the manuals. I then made a higher detail polygon count cube using the grid IPAS. lots of little polygons in that sucker, I forget how many. I tried it again, and it kept giving errors. I then proceded to make a text cylinder, with more parts to it along the length of the pipe. I tried the subtraction boolean again, and no go. Somehow I finally got a strange result (mabe on the last way I talked about, I forget)- it was the half pipe, with one single plane left from the cube. I don't understand it, so I thought I'd ask here. I know there were probably many planes made up in that grid/cube type object, but I figured at least one would get it. 🙂 I didn't know how to get a 6 sided, lots of polygons, cube to use as a subtractor. Any pointers? I realize I'm not the polygon guru here, and probably missed something really simple. (but I thought booleans would be simple, if they worked..) The pipes look great, so I'd like to cut up what I have now, instead of recreating them, if possible. Thanks as always, JNJ
#156315From: EDWARD HARVEYMar 1, 1995 1:51 AM
Hello I am definatly no boolian guru but i have created cubes with lots of polygons by tesselating in Optimize, which works much better than 3d editor tesselate because the polys are all in a grid. Ed
#156445From: John N. JordanMar 1, 1995 12:16 PM
Thanks Ed. I think my problem was different than I expected, the pipe needed to be built differently. I'm not sure I'll ever really get all the guts of this stuff. I guess I need digital putty or wood or something. 🙂 Then I'll take my dremel and drill, etc and a VR goggleset and go to it! That'll be the day. It won't wake up the neighbors either. 🙂 R5? hehe JNJ
#156691From: John K. JordanMar 2, 1995 2:56 PM
>>I guess I need digital putty or wood or something… You may be interested in some software that FARO Technologies is working on for use with their 3D digitizer. I put some details in another message (#156690) with a more appropriate subject line. JKJ
#156769From: John N. JordanMar 2, 1995 10:29 PM
got your other message, looks very interesting.
#156373From: John K. JordanMar 1, 1995 8:09 AM
>>cylinders-cube=??? John N. Jordan, You said, "like a c shaped pipe" – did you using TUBE or are you using the two cylinders to make the pipe? Does your pipe have inside and outside walls? Have you attached something to give more than one element? I just tried a number of combinations of cylinder and cube subtractions and didn't have a problem. Without more info, I can only guess, but if your subtraction object (cube) crosses more than one element, especially if the elements overlap, the boolean probably won't work. In this case, simply detach the elements, subtract copies of the cube, then reattach. Are you are subtracting a cube from a TUBE? Tubes are often problems for booleans. If your pipe needs to be a tube (with inner and outer walls), the cleanest way to cut one is to make it out of two cylinders: make the outside cylinder to size, make an inside cylinder by scaling the other down in diameter and up in length. Subtract the cube from the outside cylinder. Rotate the inside cylinder a little (to keep down problems with coincident edges in the boolean) and subtract it from the outside cylinder. This should give you a perfect cut tube. Note that with R3/4, you almost NEVER need to tesselate before booleaning. Oh, a BIG step I about forgot: never, never try to boolean with long cylinders! The culprit is long narrow faces, which the algorithms can't seem to handle properly (single precision roundoff?). Cylinders (and tubes), due to their nature, are the worst producer of long narrow faces. When making a long cylinder (or any LONG object), I always use several segments to produce much shorter, narrow faces. If I'm confused about your problem (a high possibility <g>), then clarify or simply email the 3DS file to me and I'd be glad to look at it. Long live the bool! JKJ
#156446From: John N. JordanMar 1, 1995 12:16 PM
JKJ, You are correct in properly interpreting what I was trying to say. I used the TUBE, with probably the longest polygons possible between the top and bottom. (didn't think I'd need that detail) I guess I should've looked into booleans before I spent all that time getting the texturemapping right. Silly me. And they look so real. 🙁 Hopefully I can pull off the mapping and reapply them easily to the rebuilt ones. I'll probably have to rebuild the 2 cut up pipes, like you mentioned, using true cylinders and cutting them out with another. I'll try that, thanks. Great help. (thanks Jack) JNJ
#156656From: David GouldMar 2, 1995 11:18 AM
<<I guess I should've looked into booleans before I spent all that time getting the texturemapping right.>> Yes, it is unfortunate that you will loose the mapping you've done when you perform a boolean, but there is a way to "safeguard" your mapping: 1) Create a copy of the object you want to retain it's mapping called COPY(for the purpose of explaining) 2) Hide or freeze this object. 3) Perform the boolean on the original object. 4) Unhide or unfreeze the COPY object. 5) Acquire the mapping coordinates and texture from the COPY object and then apply this mapping coordinate and texture to the booleaned object. The COPY object will be in the same position/orientation as your original object so you will get a perfect copy of your previous mapping. 6) Delete the COPY object. If the object is too large to warrant a copy then you can use a "surrogate" object such as a box(you can even use an object consisting of a single vertex). If you have any more questions let me know. David "Travelled the world on a spherical map" Gould
#156963From: david W. mennenohMar 3, 1995 6:21 PM
David, Just in case you didn't see my message to John. You don't have to copy the object to keep it's mapping coordinates intact. Just do an Acquire from the original object first. Then just do your boolean operation. Now go to mapping and the icon will reappear exactly as it was last left – from the acquire. Just reapply it and all is well. I use this all the time and it's much more efficient than having to make a copy. Thought you might like to know this. DM
#157060From: David GouldMar 4, 1995 1:44 PM
Thanks for the reminder about the "Acquire" technique. Though this method is effective, when you are doing a boolean between several objects and you want to have the same mapping for the new booleaned components the "Copy and reapply" method is the only one I can think of at the moment. Have you got any other ideas on doing this? David "Ideas welcome by the bagful" Gould
#157904From: David R. SwobodaMar 8, 1995 11:14 PM
Good tip, David. -David Swoboda
#156962From: david W. mennenohMar 3, 1995 6:21 PM
John, Actually there's even an easier way than DavidG's example of how to retain your mapping coordinates. Just Acquire the mapping from your object first. Then do your subtraction or whatever. Now just Go to Mapping and the icon will appear exactly intact from your previous use. Just apply it back to your object and go. I use this one all the time, works great. DM
#158100From: John N. JordanMar 9, 1995 10:43 PM
Thanks David, I haven't time to try out these ideas yet, but hopefully will late next week. Right now I've got to figure out why my PAR doesn't want to save from Windows. Sometime it doesn't like me manually copying an appropriate .tga to it from a dos window! It worked before, but it's messed up. I used to save static frames out of Picture Publisher all the time, but now it says there is a write error.. any ideas? JNJ
#158397From: david W. mennenohMar 11, 1995 12:31 PM
John, No, I can't save to the PAR directly from Windows either. I just leave a DOS window open and I'll save then alt-tab and F3 to keep resaving the image to tha PAR. I haven't had any corruption when saving from a DOS window though. One thing that just happened (first time) is I had an animation punt half-way through and do the table-cloth like thing. I had read a message from Don Landis stating that the best block limit was 240 (2217A) I set mine at 240 (was at 200) and had some corruption problems. I turned it down to 220 and it's been fine ever since. Hope you figure your problem out. DM
#158528From: John N. JordanMar 12, 1995 1:50 PM
Thanks. My problem is that I can't even run the PAR control in Windows.. it looses my mouse. (Wacom UD-1212 tablet) I haven't played with PIF settings or anything, mabe I can get it working.. but haven't had time to work on it. I can't wait for Windows drivers.. but noone seems to know when they'll be out. I'll finally have time to work on the boolean thing this coming week, crazy. JNJ
#156418From: Yost GroupMar 1, 1995 10:44 AM
As John K. says, add segments to your cylinder. Those long, narrow faces are Boolean-killers. – Jack