#PAR on network?
37 messages in this thread
Hello "All"
I am forwording this question from a good friend (Not yet on C$) (Not
yet having a PAR myself, I couldn't help him) He just got a PAR, he
has it on one machine in a small peer to peer network setup. He
wants to know how he can put the PAR drive on his network, so other
machines (and his WANG-TAPE) can access the files. Also he will be
using seperate copies of 3D Studio on each machine (he says, because
his inexpensive network is very slow to network render). Can he still
send each file as it's rendered, to the PAR even though he is not
really network rendering?
He thanks you ( and so do I)
David
PS I wish I wasn't so ignorant about the PAR and network rendering,
I'll have to change that soon.
The PAR doesn't handle network rendering at all unless you have a
routine called PAROUT, or NDUMP or something from Pyros Partnership.
BTW could anyone who can pleeeeeease post the Par 1.7 PAL, and NTSC
drivers up here? I can never get on DPS's BBS and it costs a fortune
from Sydney. Peter
The version 1.7 of PARDRV is not available from DPS (yet). The only
differences from 1.6 are related to PAROUT/PARIFL/PARCTL.
David,
I have the answer to both your questions:
First you'll need the new PAROUT Utilities which we sell. The PAROUT was
Developed by Pyros Pictures and Gus in particular. PAROUT is needed if you
have a network. It allows you to totally automatically take your rendered
Targa files out to the PAR in order, so that by the time your rendering is
completed, your files are already on the PAR. There are also several other
utilities included. PARCTL is a PAR player that runs as an IPAS within 3D
Studio. It allows you to play and step through animations without leaving #DS.
PARIFL will automatically create IFL files from your PAR animations for use
within 3D STudio, allowing you to view the first frame of the animations first
to make sure you have the right one. They are sold as a set of three called
the Action IPAS PAR Library. They are available directly from Pyros or from
us, your friendly local #DS/PAR dealer. They go for $295. or a $100 upgrade
from NDUMP.
The other Product is called TapeDisk and it allows 2Gig DAT Tape Drives to be
seen as NetWork Drives amoung other Things.
The Suggested Price on TAPEDISK is $249.95.
Feel Free to Contact me Via E-Mail for further Details.
Murph'
James Murphy Consulting.
>> The other Product is called TapeDisk and it allows 2Gig DAT Tape Drives
to be seen as NetWork Drives amoung other Things. <<
We have n-Dump. With TapeDisk, could we use our WangDat drive as the render
destination and copy the files to the par drive so that they never took up
any space on the network drive?
– Dan / n-Space, Inc.
Dan:
>> We have n-Dump. With TapeDisk, could we use our WangDat drive as the
>> render destination and copy the files to the par drive so that they never
>> took up any space on the network drive?
Yes, you could. NDUMP is perfect for that, and the tape would just appear as
another drive.
Actually, you could even save a step. Assuming the PAR and the tape are on the
same system, you could easily change your NDUMP batch file to first copy the
files from the network to the tape, then copy them again from the network to
the PAR, then delete them off the network.
Of course, if you didn't need to save the original Targas on tape, NDUMP or the
newer PAROUT would do the same thing.
Greg Pyros
>> NDUMP is perfect for that, and the tape would just appear as another
drive. <<
Great! TapeDisk always seemed like a cool tool… now I can justify it!
I love that kind of news!
– Dan / n-Space, Inc.
Greg and all;
>> Of course, if you didn't need to save the original Targas on tape,
>> NDUMP or the newer PAROUT would do the same thing.
Do those of you doing animations for a living using the PAR, save your Targa's
or do you just go to the PAR? Is there an advantage to saving the Targa 's?
Dennis
Dennis:
Until recently I would try to save my .tga's to a backup tape as disk space is
at such a premium. However, sometimes I had to kill 'em before I could even
get them to safe storage. Keeping the .tga's can be useful if you have to
rerender a select bunch of them. Since they are numbered you can easily
replace the corresponding frames. If you save just the .ani files from the PAR
you may have some difficulty in future re-rendering as the frame numbers upon
export may not match the 3DS frame numbers as you may have joined a few
segments together with the PAR, deleted a few frames, repeated a few frames,
etc. If you were planning to put your animation to a higher quality format you
would want the original .tga's I suppose. When the PAR had difficulty with
.ani files with frame counts above 896 the motivation for saving the .tga's was
admittedly a bit stronger. When I get Greg's new PAROUT utilities I will
probably stop saving my .tga's. I will then be able to delete the files as
they are copied to the PAR during net-renders, (right Greg?)
Bob
>> I will then be able to delete the files as they are copied to the PAR
>> during net-renders, (right Greg?)
Right on, Bob!
Greg Pyros
Bob;
>> Until recently I would try to save my .tga's
Thanks for explaining what you do.
Dennis
>>Is there an advantage to saving the Targa 's?
In my opinion it depends on the animation. If the rendering runs real fast
then I just go to the PAR and record the animation. If each frame runs more
than 6 minutes rendering or so I usually render to DOS disk first then dump to
the PAR in case a section of the animation needs rerendering I have this option
and then join the sections together in the PAR. It saves having to render the
whole thing several times. I never save the *.ani file on backup tape as some
claim to. I save the archived project file on backup tape and the animation to
betacam SP. Cheaper and faster. Have been doing this way for a year now and I
haven't regreted not having the finished rendering stored on digital backup.
Don;
>> If each frame runs more than 6 minutes rendering or so I usually
>> render to DOS disk first
Thanks for this input Don.
Dennis
Dennis:
>> Do those of you doing animations for a living using the PAR, save your
>> Targa's or do you just go to the PAR?
We toss all the Targas after the job is complete. We can always re-render.
>> Is there an advantage to saving the Targa 's?
None that I've ever seen, assuming that you have a network rendering setup.
Besides, if the client wants a change, you have to re-render it anyway, so
what's the point?
Greg Pyros
Greg;
>> We toss all the Targas after the job is complete.
Thanks Greg,
Dennis
>>>> With TapeDisk, could we use our WangDat drive as the render
destination and copy the files to the par drive so that they never took up
any space on the network drive? m<<<<<
BINGO!! <BG>
Murph'
James
Hi. I've been out of town for a bit, just got your message.
Thanks . I'll pass on the info to my pal with the PAR. (And I'll keep it in
mind for myself when I get mine.)
Thanks again,
Bye
-David
David,
According to John Ellis, you can setup the PAR as a "non-DOS" drive under
Lantastic and access it across the network.
-Donald
John should pop in here but I think he was using the PAR on a dedicated server
and needed a special DOS version of NDUMP to handle the file order problem. My
recollection was that his server PAR was not the best way to run the PAR. John?
Don,
I'm not sure there is a best way. NDUMP had its limitations. The newer PAR IPAS
sounds like a better way to go but I'm not sure all what it entails. Some of
this has to do with how you render. You render straight to the PAR, whereas I
prefer rendering to hard disk. On an EISA bus with SCSI transfers to the PAR
increased to on the average 2 seconds a frame. I back up all my TGA's and
build on them frequently for other animations. This gives me the flexibility to
do customizing and keep render time down. Entirely different approach than the
one you use. Of course our clientele is a bit different as well. I'll use the
same background several times but with customization for each segment etc.
John
Don,
After a long week I got a chance to re-read your message on the subject and
realised what you were talking about.
>> My recollection was that his server PAR was not the best way to run the PAR.
<<
Well technically you're right though it served its purpose. Here's the thing.
DPS determined that the most stable way to run the PAR is on a 3DS Server as a
single source unit. For Network rendering, to use a program like NDUMP or the
new version; PAROUT, to collect frames for the 3DS Server from a variety of
networked Slaves. As far as the PAR is concerned it sees these frames as
coming from a single source via the 3DS Server.
The way I had it set up was to be able to render frames from a variety of
machines to a "dumb server" with the PAR on it. This had advantages for me, but
because of the networking arrangement that is required ie a link from each
machine to the PAR direct, its not an advisable scenario.
PAROUT and NDUMP are designed to be used in accordance with what DPS suggests,
ie the PAR on the 3DS Server collecting frames from the slaves. From what I've
gathered and from some comments I noted from Gus, the new PAROUT solves most if
not all of the previous problems with NDUMP with some clever programming. It
seems like it wouldn't have been that complicated except that the Server had to
have forknowledge of Slaves activity, like when they were going to finish
rendering, which was a problem if the Server finished first as it would close
out the sequence, and the remaining frames wouldn't have NDUMP to guide them to
were they needed to go. The solution of course was to render extra frames so
that the Server stayed in control.
But as I said, I believe this has been resolved, so if you've been holding out,
PAROUT and the other two programs that come with it are the answer.
As I need to hold onto my frames, there's really no advantage for me as I
render directly to an external SCSI. Again I'm PARless (no jokes please), don't
ask why. <g>
John
John:
Absolutely right! PAROUT does everything you say it does! :^)
Greg Pyros
>> PAROUT does everything you say it does! <<
Kudos for solving that one!
John
John:
>> Kudos for solving that one!
The credit all goes to the Gus, all I did was chain him to his computer until
it worked like I wanted it to! :^)
Greg Pyros
>> The credit all goes to Gus… <<
Noted. And equally noteworthy is your consistent appreciation and recognition
of Gus's skill and effort. All kidding aside.
Regards,
John
John:
>> And equally noteworthy is your consistent appreciation and recognition
>> of Gus's skill and effort.
Yes, but I hate to do it in public – his head swells up, and he actually thinks
about getting a full night's sleep! :^)
Greg Pyros
Greg,
>>… and he actually thinks about getting a full night's sleep! :^)
Sleep is good, don't get enough myself. <g> But I won't question your methods
as it seems to be working. 🙂
John
Hi ya!
Thankyou for clarifying this issue, mostly for others as I already understood
it from your previous explanations of your settup but didn't want to comment to
others as you are active here on the forum.
I already bought the new PAR IPAS routines, but have to admit that the main
reason for my purchase was the PAR control module from within 3DS. I very
seldom render on my network anymore as I do so many rotoscoping jobs compared
to straight animation. I do have a simple animation that will give it a
workout soon if I can get the customer to agree on price. 🙂
I've been spending quite a bit of time shooting lately. Spent two days in
Tamps doing chroma key, underwater, and nature shooting on beta SP last week
and yesterday spent 12 hours shooting the "Biker's Week '95" in Daytona on Hi8.
The next two weeks we'll be traveling the College Spring Break circuit shooting
beta SP and Hi8 for B-roll. Biker week was better than Mardi Gras in New
Orleans. 7 days of 24 hour/day non stop parties. Easy shooting! Other than
that things have been very busy in Post and Sfx work for other Video Post
houses too.
I recently got on the Internet and have learned this internet thing is more
hype than anything else. All the software I've been introduced to has been
very buggy and causes quite a bit of frustration. Procomm Plus works best but
then there is no graphics. Addressing is very complicated. Sure have been
spoiled by CIS. The system is slow, even with a 28,800 baud modem. Being slow
raises your cost. Seems everything must be done while online. I'm beginning
to think the Internet system is still not ready for prime time, at least not
for me or in this community.
I take it you've been busy too as I haven't heard from you much, although I
have seen your posts on philosophical subjects. I've tried to stay away from
these threads as they really take up too much time.
Take care, Don
Hey Don,
Sounds like you're having a marvelous time! Need a grip?! <G>
>> Thankyou for clarifying this issue… <<
Well it did get a little confused for which I'm partly responsible. You know
we've been through so much with this PAR thing that I forget where we've been
and where we've gone. <g> I'd totally forgotten about using the PAR as a direct
input source on the 3DS Server as a possibility. Seems odd I'm sure but even
though I've got everything networked I frequently render individual sections
and dump them to the server, composite and then output to whatever. To me the
PAR was just another device at the _end_ of the chain, along with the Exabtye
and tape decks.
>> The next two weeks we'll be traveling the College Spring Break circuit…
Uh huh… sounds like the Bikini Open to me, but I think it has a new name. <g>
>> Seems everything must be done while online. <<
I've been looking into it but haven't gotten my feet wet. But my understanding
is that you can get packets just like you do on CIS and that there are readers
for such things.
>> I'm beginning to think the Internet system is still not ready for prime
time… <<
I guess some people are having a blast on it, but I'm with you, its not my idea
of the way to fly. Besides there is a company here that's wiring my portion of
the world, mostly for the business community including the San Diego Tribune
that I will be able to tap into that links the Super Computer which is tied in
via Satellite and Intenet. The through put is supposed to be capable of
handling video in real time. This I gotta see! The Trib is supposed to be
on-line later this year and its supposed to be totally interactive. I can't
imagine what they see their market being but they going full steam ahead. And
the local cable company is doing the same.
>> although I have seen your posts on philosophical subjects… <<
Yeah well sore point. <G> My own fault no doubt. <BG> You're absolutely right
they do take up too much time and in this medium its difficult to convey the
volumes of information that need to be expressed.
I'll be thinking of you shooting those scantily clad beauties, its getting to
be about that time of year here as well. Unfortuneately I'll probably be a mole
for the summer. Hope not.
Good to hear from you also, glad to hear you out enjoying life. That's the one
bad thing about animation, there's no excuse to get out! <G> I rely on the
great S.D. weather to entice me occasionally. Like today, its gorgeous!
Regards,
John
Don:
>> I recently got on the Internet and have learned this internet thing is
>> more hype than anything else.
For once, Don, I have to disagree with you! <g> I've been able to get more
information, images, meshes, and generally have more free fun than anywhere
else!
What software are you using? I'd recommend NetScape, its about the cleanest,
but at only 28.8k, anything graphical slows down a bit!
We're getting a full ISDN connection – all three channels, 112k speed, stand
back, its smoking! :^)
Greg Pyros gpyros@pyros.com
>>and generally have more free fun than anywhere else!
It must be all in how you connect. My account charges $3 per hour for a 6 hour
account and while I can connect to CIS for a week and a half in an hour of
download time, the internet requires I remain online for two hours or more per
session just to do anything worthwhile. This can get expensive. I do agree
that there is much more to find on the Internet but really haven't found a way
to work it effectively yet. I have a 14,400 baud modem and can work many BBS
at that speed but the Internet only runs at 9600 here. Their tech support
can't figure why. They say my windows only supports 9600, although I can use
14400 on other BBS's
I use Netscape and Cello. Cello is very buggy with lots of GPF errors.
Netscape works but many times it can't open a server; I wait and wait and then
it just gives me a message that it is unable to open or try again later stuff.
Meanwhile I have just spent 50% of my connect charges waiting. The only saving
grace is my account has free access between midnight and 6 AM once you use up
the 6 hours per month during the day. I used up my first month's 6 hours just
trying to log on, locate the cello and Netscape, and download it just to use
the Internet. I've been told the real way to use the Internet connection is
with Unix to get the speed. I guess that's how you connect, since you don't do
windows. <G>
To prove how reliable it is for E-mail, I sent you 5 E-mail messages within the
past week and you never got them because I know you would have replied if you
did.I sent them to Gpyros@pyros.com They were just test messages to check out
the reliability of the Internet. I posted a message (called article) on one
newsgroup and received a half dozen responses. I tried it on another newsgroup
and Netscape says it can't locate the newsgroup. I wonder just how many
responses were really sent to me that got lost. I find CIS just plain more
reliable even though it has far less variety. Now I've been told to get
Eudora for e-mail. I searched for it but only found the Manual, not the
shareware program. Couldn't find any reference to the actual program. There
went another hour searching. Now I know why they call it surfing the net.
Most of the time I'm riding on my modem surf board waiting for the right wave
to come along. <BG>
Guess we disagree on this, at least for now.
Don:
>> I've been told the real way to use the Internet connection is with Unix to
>> get the speed. I guess that's how you connect, since you don't do
>> windows. <G>
Absolutely correct!
>> To prove how reliable it is for E-mail, I sent you 5 E-mail messages
>> within the past week and you never got them because I know you would have
>> replied if you did. I sent them to Gpyros@pyros.com…
You're right, I would have – actually, almost all addresses are lower case
only, should have been gpyros@pyros.com, but you should have at least received
a bounce-back message from my server if it got this far.
>> Now I've been told to get Eudora for e-mail. I searched for it but only
>> found the Manual, not the shareware program.
>> Couldn't find any reference to the actual program. There went another
>> hour searching.
I just did an archie search for you, 2 minutes, found it in 72 places <g>!
try:
dorm.rutgers.edu in /pub/msdos/eudora
ftp.ucdavis.edu in /dos-public/windows/eudora
fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov in /pub/net.tools.windows/mail/eudora
Good luck!
Greg Pyros
Thanks for the tips.
Didn't know the address were case sensitive.
I'll check out the archie search. I used Lycos, all six, i think, servers.
When I get eudora, I'll try to send you another E-mail. If you never receive
it, it will just thank you for your help. <g>
Don.
Greg;
PMFJI, but
>> should have been gpyros@pyros.com,
I was "playing" on the Internet today using Netscape at work. I was trying to
find your "Home Page". Then I thought, "Maybe Greg doesn't have a 'home
page'". If you do, it better have some animations on it! 😉
Is the above your E-mail address? Do you have a home page?
>> I just did an archie search for you,
How do you do an archie search? Using an SGI Indy at work.
Thanks,
Dennis
Dennis:
>> I was trying to find your "Home Page". Then I thought, "Maybe Greg
>> doesn't have a 'home page'".
You thought right! At least for the next few weeks until I get over these
deadlines!!
>> >> gpyros@pyros.com
>> Is the above your E-mail address?
Yup!
>> How do you do an archie search? Using an SGI Indy at work.
Just download xarchie (perhaps you need to have it to find it? <bg>) and
compile on your machine. (Do you have a 'c' compiler?) It's a neat little
graphical archie client, and works great for searching the 'net for just about
any file or directory!
Let me know if you need some help finding the source, I can do a search and
give you a list of ftp sites and directories if you need it!
Greg Pyros
Big Kahuna Don, (he be surfing dude <g>)
>> Now I know why they call it surfing the net… <<
Yeah, you gotta wait for the big one. (Like just before the UCSD Super
Computers log on. <g>)
John
Thanks for the info…
-David