#IPAS3 Disk 7 & r4
23 messages in this thread
-G, -J & co.,
Are there any known problems using the routines on disk 7 with 3DS r4?
I have sporadically had some trouble with my machine freezing while
using Optimize but the problem is not consistant and is hard to
pinpoint. I'd appreciate any advice.
Nope… There are absolutely zero known problems with disk7 and r4 on
a correctly-functioning computer. If you're getting freezes with
Optimize, my guess is that it's pointing to a memory problem
somewhere in your system. What kind of memory manager are you using?
– G
I've had consistent lock up problems with optimize on specific objects where
the problem was duplicatable. It seems that there are just some objects that
make it go bananas.
Jim Alabiso
NOBONES Productions
Div. of StarLogic Inc.
If you have a reproducible case, the first thing to do is check it on
another machine (if you have access to one). Otherwise, Jonas would
be happy to check it out for you (but he won't be back in town until
the 12th).
– G
I will do that. If I recall we had created these dogwood flowers with
petals and little pollen spheres in the middle of them. It seemed
that the geometry seemed a bit much for Optimize. In the end it
seemed a bit much for us so we canned them!
>> I've had consistent lock up problems with optimize on specific objects
where the problem was duplicatable. It seems that there are just some
objects that make it go bananas. <<
We experienced this too, but the problem was later tracked down to a problem
with the model geometry…. duplicate vert, edge, or something I think…
might have been an isolated vertex. Double check your mesh _very_ closely
with View All Edges and Vert Ticks.
Good Luck
– Dan / n-Space, Inc.
Dan,
Your advice sounds very good. Out of curiousity, what program was used that
created the troublesome models?
— John
>> Your advice sounds very good. Out of curiousity, what program was used
that created the troublesome models? <<
The model was created in 3ds, so it probably wasn't a duplicate face (it's
kinda hard to make those, thankfully), but it could have been an isolated
vertex or other similar problem. I honestly cannot recall.
After reading, in subsequent messages, that your problem model is
coming from MacroModel, I think that "model integrity" is definitely
the rub. Good luck tracking down the problem – those are the things
that make my head hurt. I have found a good way to debug models is
to select faces in potential problem areas and Modify/Face/Move with
shift to move a copy of the faces away from the model. Then hide
everything else and turn on Display/Geometry/Vert Ticks and All Lines
and use the lower level (face/edge/vert) tools, esp. delete face, to
"dissect" the new object. Once you find the problem, go back to the
original model and fix it.
Have fun… – Dan / n-Space, Inc.
Good advice — thanks for the tip.
Cheers, John
Thanx, it was rather radical and complicated geometry.
Jim Alabiso
NOBONES Productions
No problem, glad I could help.
– Dan / n-Space, Inc.
I too have had this problem more than once, even sent a example to Asoft but I
guess it fell
through the cracks as I got no reply. At the time my thinking was the same as
yours and noted it to Asoft. Not that big of a problem as if you merge points
it should go away. Or save it out as a DXF and reload. BTW of the models that
crashed one came from Imagine and one came out of the shaper.
Brandon
>> BTW of the models that crashed one came from Imagine and one came out
of the shaper. <<
Since we are making models for a real-time engine, poly counts have to be
quite low (0 – 350 faces typically). As such, we do a great deal of work at
the face and edge level. Many times we will delete an entire selection of
faces, leaving the isolated verts with which we can Create/Face/Build less
complex geometry. Sometimes this also results in a phenomena we call "Verts
in Space" (remember the Muppet Show), a situation which seems to occasionally
make life difficult for Optimize.
But then, I could be wrong…
– Dan / n-Space, Inc.
>>we will delete an entire selection of faces, leaving the isolated
>>verts with which we can Create/Face/Build less complex geometry
PMJI. Have you tried using Modify/Vertex/Weld instead of rebuilding faces?
I've done it both ways and for me, dragging and dropping vertices seems easier
and quicker than rebuilding. Just a thought.
JKJ
>> PMJI. Have you tried using Modify/Vertex/Weld instead of rebuilding
faces? I've done it both ways and for me, dragging and dropping vertices
seems easier and quicker than rebuilding. Just a thought. <<
Good suggestion… never really thought of it that way, but it should work
great in many instances.
thanks
– Dan / n-Space, Inc.
I use Modify/Vertex/Weld a LOT, to clean up after booleans, simplify meshes,
and along with Edge/Divide and Edge/Turn, to add detail and fine tune meshes.
Just be very careful not to accidentally weld to a vertex that is on the back
side of a mesh – you can accidentally weld to a vertex that isn't even visible.
Depending on the mesh, it is sometimes best to select and hide all the faces on
one side while working on the other.
JKJ
<<Just be very careful not to accidentally weld to a vertex that is on the back
side of a mesh – you can accidentally weld to a vertex that isn't even
visible.>>
Try turning on Display/Geometry/Backface on and the back faces won't be shown,
so you won't make an accident.
DaviD "Accidently vertex snapped" GouID
>>Try turning on Display/Geometry/Backface on
>>and the back faces won't be shown, so you won't
>>make an accident.
Good theory, DaviD of Paris – but unfortunately not a fact 🙁
Although Backface hides the faces, it does not hide the vertices. You can see
this if you turn on VertexTicks. Try an LSphere in a user view. With any
combination of Backface and Vertex visiblity, you can easily weld a front
vertex to a back vertex resulting in faces that plunge thru the mesh.
Often I'll work with backfaces hidden and vertex ticks visible and simply avoid
the back ticks. However if a back vertex is close to or coincident with a
front vertex in a given view, a manual weld might weld to the wrong vertex.
The only sure thing is to select and hide the back faces, which also hides and
protects the vertices.
"My kingdom for a single-level UNDO!"
JKJ of Oak Ridge
PS. Hey Jonas of Autodesk: Wishlist item-> Backface to hide vertices as well as
faces. Can't think of a single instance where the current way is be better.
I'm using EMM386 with the RAM option in DOS 6.2. I haven't had any other
problems of note (3DS has been amazingly bullet-proof).
I haven't checked it yet but the situation that Dan described sounds
similar to mine — the object I was trying to optimize was a DXF from
MacroModel. I've had other trouble with MacroModel files so I bet
that's the culprit (I have a real love-hate relationship with that
program).
Cheers, John
John: Just joining in this thread to say that I also use EMM386 RAM and 3-DS
has functioned flawlessly in that mem environment. Don't think I've crashed
more than once, and that was very dumb human error. Disk 7 has done fine, and
Optimize has been happy. However, I have imported DXF models from a fractal
development platform, DEFORMED and DISPLACED and then some unholy manipulations
– then and only then did OPTIMIZE hang up (probably insulted by the lack of
model integrity. Jeffrey
Jeffery,
Thanks for the input. It sounds more and more like naff DXF is the problem.
Cheers, John
Ah ha…. you didn't say that this was due to a dxfd-out file from
Macromodel. It's certainly possible for a non-3DS program to
generate nonmanifold topology and screw things up. You could attempt
to overcome this by welding the file while dxfing it in to 3DS to zip
it together correctly — with a large enough weld threshold, it might
make a difference.
It's odd that some that some of the Macromodel objects optimized fine but
others did not. Anyway, I changed the weld threshold and that seems to have
made the difference. Thanks for the info. Optimize is indespensible.
Cheers, John