#Floptical Drives
45 messages in this thread
Has anyone seen the floptical drives that are now out? Just exactly what
is a floptical drive? I know it can store over 20MB of data on a disk the
sizr of a 3 1/2", but do you need to use special disks for this purpose? If
so, what would be the cost? This seems like an interesting way to back k
up a hard drive.
–HUT
Haven't seen one yet. As of two weeks ago, all the 'local' dealers were
very interested but still couldn't get thier hands on one.
Based on some very short discussions and the even shorter articles/ads, I
believe these drives are using a laser tracking system to allow much
greater data density. The technology is totally unrelated to that of
optical disks and does not offer the data security those do. Someone said
the disks themselve will run about $20 or $1/meg.
As you said not bad for backup. I've seen/heard nothing about access
times.
lGlamb
Flopticals use a laser to position the read-write head more accuratly on
the disk, so they can write more data. The drives are listing for about
$650, and the disks are about $25 each. I have heard that they are faster
transfering data than a floppy, but slower than a hard drive. They are not
only a good way to back up a hard drive, but also a good place to keep very
large files that you don't want on line all the time, for example, large
drawings, anaimations, and sound samples. What an anaimation you could
save on one.
Bill Roberts in Ellettsville In. via Whap!
Mike, A friend and I installed one on his 2500. Yes they can store 20Mb in
a disk the phyical size of a 3.5 inch floppy. Yes they are "special" and
cost up to 1.00 per Mb.($17-$20ea). It was a Easy install with an ICD
controller which knew the drives specs.
John
I think almost any recent partitioning software can read a drive's specs.
What company/brand did your friend buy? I bought from DMI, but I think that
TTR's actual drive is identical. I went with DMI because they offered me an
internal version when TTR didn't, and DMI (truthfully) claimed that their
unit didn't require a driver, while TTR did (I'm not sure why.. maybe to
make it easier to switch between 720K, 1.4MB and 20MB formats?). TTR also
offers MRBackup Professional and 'a bunch o' software goodies' on the
floptical that comes with the drive "free of charge". The two companies'
prices seemed about the same.
How do you like the DMI Flopticle? How much was it and how much are the
disks?
Nick
Yes we went with the DMI…(the internal is a good reason)
……………….John
ext
John, TTR later offered us an internal version, at a slightly more
competitive price.. after we cancelled our orginal order and told them we
wanted the DMI internal instead. DMI says we were the first to order the
internal configuration.
I have a question for you.. Have you been able to get Cross-Dos to
automatically recognize 720K and 1.44MB diskettes?
Syquests are cheaper, have hard disk access speeds, store more data per
disk (cart). The carts are (roughly) $2.00 per meg.
-sja
> Syquests are cheaper, have hard disk access speeds, store more data per
> disk (cart). The carts are (roughly) $2.00 per meg.
Steve –
You can get a Syquest (88meg) for as little as $425, and a Floptical
(20meg) as little as $495. (Abel Supply prices). $70 difference.
Media is about $1.25 per meg for the Syquest, and about $0.80 for the
Floptical. At a savings of $0.45 per megabyte, the $70 savings on the
Syquest is used up after less than 160 megabytes of storage.
My A2000 has about 160meg used on its prime HD; the A1000 has about 60meg,
the PeeCee about 45meg.
If I spend an extra $120, I can get an external box, power supply, and SCSI
cable, for EITHER drive, and then I can use it for all three machines.
At this point it comes down to: 1) Do you care about the four bits per meg
difference in cost of media (keeping in mind that the NEXT disk you buy,
when you need more, is either $110, or about $16), and 2) is the speed
important. [And 3) (which we can't answer now, but I suspect will lean
toward Flopticals) how do the reliabilities of the drives and media
compare] ?
For backups, I'd go with Floptical. For large ADPro projects or 24-bit
Anims, or such-like, perhaps the speed of the Syquest is more important.
. . . . . JimDoc
For me, flopticals are just too slow, so even if they were half the price
I'd not consider them (not to mention they don't store nearly enough for my
needs).
Steve, The only advantage it seems is the speed. The higher storage
capacity is nice but it is double the cost per Mb. Flopticals are much
easier to store and rarely will you have a file larger than 20Mb. I do like
the Syquest but I will probably end up with a Floptical for my 2500 aswell.
……………………..John
Mike,
I don't know all the details about Flopticals, but you can use either
double-sided, double-density disks, or double-sided, high-density disks.
The DS-DD are the same ones you currently use with the Amiga.
However, I would be very wary about buying a drive from TTR. I'm currently
having a problem with them about a tape backup system I bought from them in
11/91. It still doesn't work and I paid over $1,000 for it.
They unequivocally have the WORST support of any hardware vendor I've
dealt with. I receive better support for a $39 piece of software.
There's a good chance that if you buy a floptical drive from TTR that it
won't work and you'll spend months calling them trying to get a fix.
Dom Fontana
Dom,
You can't use standard DSDD or DSHD floppies in flopticals, you
have to use floppies that have been specially prepared to work in them if
you want to get the 20 Meg storage from them. Those floppies have laser
tracks laid down on them that the drive uses to align the heads.
Don
Don,
After I left my message, I discoverd from other messages that I was wrong
about the disks used with a floptical drive. Sorry.
Dom Fontana
Don, wrong. I own a floptical and it uses DSDD disks as 720K, DSHD disks as
1.44MB and floptical disks as 20MB.
Chris,
Read the message I left…
…you can't use standard…if you want to get the 20 meg storage
from them
I stick by that…if you want to get the 20 meg storage, you need
the specially prepared disks, you can not use DSDD or DSHD disks.
Which seems to agree with what you are saying.
Don
You can buy floptical drives direct from DMI or TTR Development (both have
ads and press releases running), as I did. I bought my unit as an
'internal' for my 3000's empty floppy bay. These units are SCSI-based and
act like a removable hard disk. They can read/write to standard 1MB (as
720K) and 2MB (as 1.44MB) floppies, but require floptical disks to operate
at a 20MB capacity (floptical disks are about $20 apiece). It will NOT
access 880K format (yet). The floptical disks are nearly identical to
standard floppies on the outside.. no differences in size. It makes an
excellent backup device (works w/Quarterback and other programs) – no more
incessant swapping. Speed is much faster than a floppy, but also quite a
bit slower than a typical hard disk.
Furthermore, both DMI and TTR say that as higher-capacity flopical disks
become available, the drive will be able to store capacities of 40, 80 or
even 120MB per disk. What makes the floptical disks special is the almost
CD-like optical markings on the underside of the disk which act as precise
guidelines for the magnetic tracks on the disk. The drive has a read/write
head with an optical sensor to allow the head to search for the perfect
spot to read or write a specific magnetic track, using the optical tracks
as a guide. Aparently, all that is needed to make a higher-capacity
floptical disk is to manufacture a magnetic surface dense enough to hold
the desired amount of magnetic information, and then optically mark the
disk with the required number of tracks (I am, of course, probably greatly
simplifying things).
Hope this answers your questions. 🙂
I wasn't aware there was an internal version of the floptical drive. Are
you saying it mounts directly in the 3 1/2" bay? Would you mind telling me
the price?
Floptical drives maybe slow in some cases but what you are gaining is a
removable media that fits into your 3 1/2 bay and its removable disks are
the size of normal 3 1/2 disks. No extra storage or worries about the
infamous Sequest Removable Media Drive Crashes. These drives are durable
but at $549.00 they are a bit pricy for the adverage user. Almost as much
as a CD ROM (which I would rather have).
The list price in AmigaWorld you see is for the External version, the
Internal version is $100.00 cheaper.
Nuff Said
Shawn >>>—Manassas—>>>
Shawn:
I happen to have a supply of the older Konica 10meg floptical drives.
They're 5.25" rather than 3.5", but the media is the same size as standard
5.25" disks (much more compact than SyQuest cartridges). The media cost is
about $1.50 per meg, and I'm selling the drives for $200.00 each. While
they hold half as much as the newer smaller flopticals out now, they are
also more than half the price!
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Mike, I assume those are SCSI drives…are they internal or external? I'd
be interested in one or two.
If I recall, the media of those drives were simply magnetic with no optical
tracking.
Christopher:
The Konica's are true flopticals. they use the optical tracking to give
them 480tpi. Another thing these drives can do is read 360k & 1.2m
formatted IBM floppies using CrossDOS with a single mountlist. This drive
is the only way that I know of to read 1.2m floppies on an Amiga.
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Shawn
"infamous Sequest [sic] Removable Media Drive Crashes" ?
I've got 6 carts — use them daily and have no idea what you're talking
about. You repeating second/third hand info or have personal experience?
-sja- via AP 0.01A
I'm with you, Steve. I have a SyQuest in my 5 1/4 inch bay and
absolutly love it and would recommend it to anyone who wants to store a lot
of data.
What I meant about the poor quality of the 44 MB drives is that, I have
seen plenty of the Sequest Drives and while I can't vouch for the 88 MB
drive I can certainly say the 44 MB stinks. I have been with the Reserves
for over 5 years and ever since the Removable 44 was introduced I have not
heard or seen much "performance" from these drives.
I have heard and read though that Sequest has improved a great deal with
the 88 MB Drive, but then again I have only seen and used the 44.
Nuff said…
Shawn >>>—Manassas—>>>
If you don't mind me adding a bit after your "Nuff Said" I have one
question for you. Have you ever owned a SyQuest drive?
You see, I have owned a SyQuest (this is the correct spelling, by the
way) for three or four years and I have never had a problem with the drive
or any of the carts. This isn't second hand information. This is personal
experience.
The business of owning and useing on for business are one in the same. If
you use yours for pleasure then you do not fully utilize you drive. As for
the government, they have had these drives for a long time. I have had
MANY experiences with this drive to come to the conculsion that they stink
(44 MB). If you have one and have had no problems then consider yourself
lucky.
This opinion on the 44 MB drive is commonplace throughout the military, soI
would say my opinion is not groundless, nor would I say that your opinion
is not worthwhile. I am glad you have not had any problems with your
drive, I only wish your experience was more commonplace.
Shawn >>>—Manassas—>>>
Yours are the only bad words I have heard about the drive but since
SyQuest doesn't pay me to defend them I won't try to convine you to buy
one. Hope you find what you're looking for.
Well, the SyQuest 44 may have problems in the military, but none here at my
place. Using five cartridges regularly, with several others for backup.
Not one glitch in two years now. I have two friends in town who are also
using the SyQuest regularly (I mean as their regular HD) with -0problems.
I often see comments like yours, that the SyQuest has problems, but have
yet to hear of a concrete example. Perhaps you could let me know what has
been failing regularly for you, so that I can avoid it 🙂
If the SyQuest has a problem (again, I haven't heard of any actual
examples, just hearsay), I've wondered if it might be environment related.
My Amiga (and my friends) are in relatively clean, dust-free rooms. I
wonder if a different environment (ie. factory, dusty, etc) would lead to
problems that I wouldn't see?
–jp–seattle–
How do you confine your friends to clean, dust free rooms? Don't they get
bored? <running away>
–Ben
John:
Ditto here. I've used 2 44 Meg Syquest's (20 different cartridges)
connected to both PeeCees and Amigas in a professional environment for 2
years without any problems.
Regards Charles
Leslie,
The internal version is $549 list as opposed to the external list of $649.
For a few bucks more there is an adaptor that lets you mount it in the 5
1/4" bay if necessary.
Quadram also has a 25 MB floptical (that supposedly will be upgradable to
support 50 and 100 meg). Its price is $995 external and $849 internal but
it comes with a SCSI card for an MS-Dos machine and software for MS Dos.
They are reluctant to sell the drive without the controller. I also do not
know if it will work with an Amiga SCSI adaptor.
wmc
I called Quadram and had them fax me some info a while ago. Their drive is
the Insite or Brier one, I forget which, with their host adapter and
software, which explains their reluctance to sell the mech separately,
since they make minimal cash off it.
Craig
Craig, Its the Brier one. The part that is interesting is that they seeem
to indicate that it can go to 50 and 100 meg when the media is available.
Now, if wee could only get to the sourcee behind Quadram (Brier)
directly…
BTW, I'm thinking of trying FFV with the old styl DKB MegAchip and a
Toaster and GVP Combo 33. Is there enough cabel from the FFV to the
backplate mounted connector to go in the slot between the cpu's back plate
slot and the one for the first Amiga card?
wmc
I don't think the old DKB megachip and the FFV boards will both fit. There
is enough cable for the FFV output to go in behind the last PC slot, so
that shouldn't be a problem.
Craig
Craig,
I've got a hi-rise version of the old DKB which allowed th FF DEB
underneath, so I'm hoping FFV will fit. If not, I'll have to invest in the
new MegaChip, I guess.
BTW, the original problem I had with the first FFV attempt was a Cap (407)
which wouldn't allow the FFV to seat. I have since replaced the cap with
an identical one butI left enoug of the leads showing so I can bend it
aside. Hopefully this time it will work out. These visible scan lines are
driving me bonkers! wmc
Wayne, Insite also claims their drive will adapt to higher-capacity
floptical media (upto 120MB) when it becomes available. I have heard this
from both TTR *and* DMI reps.
Holy cow! At that price, who would WANT to use the Quadram unit?
Tallgrass is also now marketing a 20MB floptical in the DOS market. I
wouldn't be surprised if they were all based on the same Insite
mechanism/controller.
Leslie,
The internal version is $549 list as opposed to the external list of $649.
For a few bucks more there is an adaptor that lets you mount it in the 5
1/4" bay if necessary.
Quadram also has a 25 MB floptical (that supposedly will be upgradable to
support 50 and 100 meg). Its price is $995 external and $849 internal but
it comes with a SCSI card for an MS-Dos machine and software for MS Dos.
They are reluctant to sell the drive without the controller. I also do not
know if it will work with an Amiga SCSI adaptor.
wmc
Thanks for the info. I've kept your message for future reference (like
when I have some money.)
'Directly' mounted is stretching it a bit. The floptical drive is one of
those 1" high 3.5" drive units.. quite small. It requires shimms (or even
washers) or a monting bracket to bring it up to the right height for a
match with the CPU's drive/case opening. I have my floptical mounted in the
rightmost bay of my A3000. As for ordering the internal version, yes it is
cheaper than the external package (about $550 with 1 floptical disk).
This sounds too good to be true. A drive that remains viable and only the
media need be improved for more storage. Can anyone else verify this ??
Brian
I can't confirm it from direct experience with this particular drive, but
it is very common in disk drives to build them to handle a denser medium,
and to upgrade the capacity as better media comes along.
-larry