#Siggraph Present
48 messages in this thread
>> If you did you would have bought vapor ware. << >> 18 months ago was Nov.
1993 <<
So its Easter weekend and you've decided to get on my case. Well go pester
Martin, it was his numbers… <g>
At least its nothing serious… but I don't understand. How about a little
credit for all that good digital info I passed along, or is that not how the
game is played?
John
>>So its Easter weekend and you've decided to get on my case.
You'd better be kind, now. My wife just gave me my birthday present. It's a
credit voucher for a round trip ticket to anywhere I want to go. She knew I
wanted to go to SIGGRAPH this year so I just might be out there to bug you in
person this summer. <G> (She volunteered to be bumped on her last flight and
that is what the airline gave her. slick eh?) I do plan to make a week of it
when I come. Now where and when is Siggraph this year and how far away is it
from your place? Since I was born in SCa I want to visit there too.
>> You'd better be kind, now… <<
Sounds to me like its your wife I ought to be kind to. <G> She's obviously the
sweetheart in the family. And she probably deserves the vacation more than you
do … You can tell her we've got beautiful beaches, nice climate, Sea World is
10 mins away, San Diego Zoo and Balboa park is 15, and she'd probably be a lot
more fun as well… <g> Jeez Don, don't you feel guilty leaving her at home.
🙂 If we get together it'll be like a couple of rattle snakes doing a war
dance. (I wonder if you're finding any of this amusing. ) Well FWIW the
conference is from the 6th to the 11th. You'd have a choice between an 1.5 hour
drive or taking a shuttle between Anamhiem and San Diego Lindberg field. Lots
of hotels around me so there' always a place to stay. <G> (see I know your so
damn curious, wild horses couldn't keep you away. 🙂
>> since I was born S.Ca… << I knew there was something I liked about you.
<g>
John
"The growth of the Alladin will be limited only by it's 8 bit signal in a CCIR
601 10 bit world."
Old subject: I keep seeing similar comments like this up on the BP+ forum.
Thought you'd find it interesting as per the 10 bit reference.
>>(I wonder if you're finding any of this amusing. )<<
Absolutely, Remember, I seldom take anything you say serious. <G>
>> I seldom take anything you say serious… <<
Yeah, I gathered per the > 8 bit signal in a CCIR 601 10 bit world…
O.K. Don we'll see about that. <g>
John
CCIR601 issues ?
When I get time I'll read up on it but right now it is low priority for me to
be concerned about.
No sweat Don, just wanted to make sure you took me serious this time.
<g> As a matter of fact the place I do digital transfers has a Diskus
and an A65, apparently there is a way for them to talk with each
other, even though one is 10 bit and the other is 8 bit. Both CCIR
601 with 8 bit output. I really should find out how its done, just
out of curiousity.
O.K. Don, after digging through my manuals this is what I found, which outlines
what I've been telling you.
This is regarding the 8 bit portion of the CCIR 601 specification.
"The CCIR 601 Digital Standard specifies that 8 bits of information for
LUMINANCE and 8 bits for CHROMINANCE axes are samples and stored… 8 bits
allows a maximum 256 levels of information to be represented for each component
(reduced slightly in CCIR 601 to minimise clipping of noise and overshoots).
Approximately 16 million unique values can be represented in the CCIR 601
system.
A random change of one Least Significant Bit (LSB) in 8 bits represents a
SIGNAL to NOISE RATIO of approximately 54 db. This realistically exceeds the
noise performance of most analogue video sources, recording and transmission
systems. 8-bits was therefore chosen as a practical and commercially realistic
standard for the industry."
This is regarding the 10 bit portion of the CCIR 601 specification.
"The CCIR 601 digital component standard specifies 8 bits to define gain
RESOLUTION for LUMINANCE and CHROMINANCE signals and the D1 and D2 digital tape
formats specify 8 bits recorded on tape."
You'll also note that A65's A64/60's and some other's output 8 bits as well, so
its hardly a 10 bit world… but to continue…
"Two extra bits can be carried (if available) between equipment, via the 25 way
parallel or serial digital interconnections. The extra two bits offer some
improvement of images only when the source, recording means and replay systems
work to this precision. This is rarely the case. The number of bits on the
external connections should not be confused with the internal precision of a
system. When 10 bit sources are connected to eight bit destinations by simply
losing or truncating the last two bits the results are worse than an eight bit
source."
You'll note that in the PVR specs that they do not claim CCIR 601
specification. They claim a CCIR 601 resolution of 720 x 480. I suspect the
reason they don't claim to meet the CCIR 601 specification is because its all
processed in 10 bits. Where as the Ill Pro can claim CCIR 601 as it meets that
specification in the model with 720×486 rectangular pixels. Outputting in CCIR
601 is only as good as the material you're inputting, same with the PVR.
The truth is, although its of marginal relevance, <g> that while the PVR does
not meet CCIR 601 specifactions and cannot integrate into a digital environment
like say an Abekas Diskus which is also 10 bit but CCIR 601 compatible (as
outlined in previous citations), the output can be theoretically better than D1
as a result.
Theorectically is theorectically. There are alot of factors. Like in an Abekas
you have 1 bit per disk arrays, whereas no configuration of the PVR allows for
this kind of arrangement. So while it may be possible for frames from an
animation to have that level of performance, it is highly dubious whether
sampled live video will attain anywhere near that level, although I would
expect it to exceed that which is currently available on the PAR. Another
factor is how the 10 bits in encoded from RGB and what kind of rounding occurs
when converted from RGB to YUV. This can get real messy and cause banding and
contouring. This will be of more concern in the case of Non Linear editing and
multiple pass layering, than of concern to the animator who just wants to store
frames into it for real time playback. Something to check out though if you
also plan to use it that way.
For me its a cost effective solution, provided the output looks as good as I
believe it will, and I won't have to give up my nice Ill Pro Framebuffer in the
process as I would with the Max, so the two should wed well together. I can set
the Ill Pro to run at the same resolution as the PVR. The options being 720×486
and the later, 720×480 being the same as the PVR which should allow me to paint
box my life away. (well at least a portion of it, when I'm not animating. <g>)
John
John,
You don't mention that it'll take Don another 1 1/2 to get from Siggraph
in L.A. to Anaheim (now why would he go there?).
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
>> now why would he go there? <<
Cause I wanted to make sure he had alot of fun while in L.A.? <g>
John
Don:
>> My wife just gave me my birthday present. It's a credit voucher for a
>> round trip ticket to anywhere I want to go. She knew I wanted to go to
>> SIGGRAPH this year…
That's GREAT news!
>> Now where and when is Siggraph this year…
LA Convention Center; August 7 -> 10, ASOFT party probably the night of Sunday
the 6th.
I hope you have time to stop by! (We're about 35 mins south of the LACC,
depending on traffic! <bg>)
Greg Pyros
Thanks, It looks like I will be arriving early for some tourist and visiting
activities as I have to leave for a trip to PA on the 11th with family for a
week. Geez! looks like I won't have a business when I return after two weeks
away.
Don:
>> It looks like I will be arriving early for some tourist and visiting
>> activities…
Great! It looks like there will be a two-day advanced 3D Studio seminar
weekend the Saturday and Sunday before Siggraph at UCLA. Should be fun, so far
the confirmed speakers are Alan Iglesias, Paul Lind, Doug Wolfgram, Jim Biebl,
and Nancy Fulton. (Oh, yea, me too!)
Be careful, if we find you in the area, we may drag you up on stage and throw
some video questions at you! <bg>
Greg Pyros
>>>Great! It looks like there will be a two-day advanced 3D Studio seminar
weekend the Saturday and Sunday before Siggraph at UCLA. Should be fun, so far
the confirmed speakers are Alan Iglesias, Paul Lind, Doug Wolfgram, Jim Biebl,
and Nancy Fulton. (Oh, yea, me too!)<<
So how do you attend this thing? Does it cost? How do I sign up? I'll be coming
into town early as well.
Tim:
>> So how do you attend this thing? Does it cost? How do I sign up? I'll be
>> coming into town early as well.
1) Talk to UCLA Extension
2) Yup, but nominal, I've heard. (they aren't paying the speakers, so it
better not be much! <bg>
3) See answer to #1 above.
Greg Pyros
So how do I talk to UCLA extension?
PMJI,
Greg! This sounds like something "somebody" should get on Video tape! Is this
possible?
I'd love to have this type of a presentation available on Video for our
Wisconsins 3D Artists Seminars and Conference this August 14th, 15th and 16th.
Could this at all happen? What would it cost? Etc.
Murph'
Murph:
You'll have to check it out with UCLA extension – Charles Swartz is in charge
of it.
Greg Pyros
Is someone going to video this?
How would I get in touch with Charles Swartz at UCLA extension?
Murph'
Murph:
>> How would I get in touch with Charles Swartz at UCLA extension?
(310) 825-9634
Greg Pyros
Greg;
>> It looks like there will be a two-day advanced 3D Studio seminar
What does it take ($$$) to be able to attend this seminar?
Dennis
Dennis:
I just got the info from UCLA, the two day advanced 3DS seminar will be only
$195! Such a deal! Call UCLA at (310) 825-9971 to register. August 5th and
6th, Sat and Sun before Siggraph.
And we will break in plenty of time for the ASOFT party, I promise!!
Greg Pyros
Greg;
>> And we will break in plenty of time for the ASOFT party, I promise!!
Ok! Sounds Good.
Thanks,
Dennis
Don,
Siggraph is at the Los Angeles Convention Center this year, in downtown
L.A. (yecch). CSA is in West L.A., and I hate going downtown, but I should be
able to manage it just this once.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
What is 1 1/2? I should be OK as long as I don't have to deal with the LA
Police, right?
I hear they are more corrupt than the Chicago police.
Don,
I meant hours. I guess John figures you'll want to head to
Dizzyland or some such. I just wanted to make sure it was understood
that Siggraph is in L.A. this year, not Anaheim (where is was only
recently). It does seem at times as if the majority of crimes are
being committed by the LAPD, but I'm sure that isn't really true;
just gets more press. A lot of the crimes over here on the Westside
don't get mentioned – wouldn't want to promote an atmosphere of
fear. Besides, they check for weapons at the airports.
I suppose there have been a # of investigations of officers involved
in drugs, prostitution, shooting at Highway Patrol officers, rape &
murder, but let's not let a few bad apples….
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Nice Kevin, I think you just talked me out of going to SIGGRAPH this year. <g>
Murph'
James,
Was it something I said <g>? Come on down, bring the troops!
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Geee….I dunno….you made LA seem such an attractive inviting place. <g>
>> Come on down, bring the troops! <<
Been there, Done that! I'm tired of war zones. Ok? 🙁
Hey I know! Let's hold SIGGRAPH in Chicago Next Year! Anyone got any
idea who we have to talk to about this type of thing…I mean who
ever picks the date, time and place has got to love living in
overcrowded Sauna's or obviously doesn't ever actually attend these
events themselves. last Year Florida in August now DownTown L.A. in
August Why not just move it to Beruit and get it over with! <BG>
Murph'
Well, your in luck! Next year it is NEW ORLEANS in August! Can you say
200% humidity? 🙂
New Orleans! in August!….You've got to be kidding! I think I'm
beginning to see a pattern here. Perhaps the SIGGRAPH planners don't
want this event to get any bigger therefore weeding all sane persons
completly out of attendance.<g> Murph'
The only saving grace for me is that I've never been to New Orleans, so I
figured i'd just suffer the heat and humidity.
>> Let's hold SIGGRAPH in Chicago Next Year! ….Why not just move it to Beruit
and get it over with!
Isn't that the same?
Someday I'll tell you a story about the Chicago police that will scare the sh*&
out of you.
Don!
See my Message to Tim!
I guess all big Citys are the Same.<g>
Murph'
James,
I vote for Boston – that was pretty nice. Chicago was OK. Obviously,
conventions get better rates during the steamy "off" months, dooming us to the
hell of Atlanta, Dallas, Anaheim, Orlando, etc. during the summer.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Kev'
I've got to beleive the off-months of Chicago are a lot more liveable than the
Steamy "off" months of Atlanta Dallas etc.
However there's always the Big City thing to deal with too.
I've grown less and less tolerant of some of the goings on in the larger cities
and find it harder to justify subjecting myself or my family to the everyday
problems of big city life.
While I truley love to meet all the great folks here that are associated with
3D Studio and it's creations, I find it diffucult to put my family at risk.
I've been to conventions all over this country so one big city is pretty much
the same as another…however the last few years we've witnessed shootings, and
been backed in to doorways by gangmembers as well as robbed and it's getting to
wear a bit thin. 8-(
I'm beginning to feel that every time I go to one of these things I'm putting
my family at risk. That's not much fun when your trying to enjoy the show and
relax now is it?
I used to think that there was always a certain percentage of risk involved in
just getting up in the morning..so, what the heck. However the things that
have been happening latley at some of these big city convention centers and in
the nearby hotels has caused me to start looking at the real percentages.
To a criminal those Convention Badges are just a big sign saying "I've Got
Money, I'm from out of Town, Follow Me!
The Hotel we stayed in in Florida Acutally had Armed Guards Stationed in the
Parking lot as we came and went during the whole week we were there.
I didn't know whether I should have felt safe or not?
I think I've gone on about this a bit too much.
However you can understand that this has gone way past the joking stage for us
given our past experiences.
LaTER
Murph'
James,
Yep, it's getting a little old alright. You are *generally* pretty safe
staying on the Westside of town, except maybe at the beach, Santa Monica
(mainly just harassed by the panhandlers), or Westwood. Drive on into
downtown, park at the Convention Center and go to the show. Otherwise, things
are about as they are in most cities. I would suggest NOT staying downtown or
spending your evenings there, though. I want to note that my opinions do not
represent those of the Los Angeles Tourist Board (or whatever they are).
Definitely not like the small town environment I grew up here in.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
> Let's hold SIGGRAPH in Chicago Next Year! <
Hey, I'm all for it!! Chicago is just a skip accross the pond for me.
Siggraph 92 was great for me that way! And the crime isn't _that_ bad. Just
don't get out of your car unless absolutely necessary. <BG>
— James — Choreo Motion —
I used to enjoy going to chicago in the "Old Days" there was more political and
organized crime but you could at least walk down LaSalle or Visit Old Towne
without being attacked and robbed.
Now these street gangs have taken a lot of these area's over and you've got 14
year old kids backing you in a corner with a 9mm semi-automatic in their
hands….not a pleasant experience I can tell you first hand.
…..And Don't Get Me Started on Reporting this and the additional Crap you
have to put up with dealing with the Chicago Police…can you say "Burnt out
Detective"….I think you can….can you say Dry Drunk Syndrome….I think you
can…plus having the street cops joke about who they think this was is really
a wonderful experience…..NOT!
One week after we were held up we read in the paper an exact description of
the group that held us up had held up another couple in exactly the same door
way and killed the husband for not handing over his wallet fast enough. They
argued about whether or not they should shoot his wife in front of her and then
turned and _Walked_ away from her. I think the Chicago Cops and the Chicago
Youth Gangs oughta both be locked in to soldier field and let em' have at it.
Of course It took me Years before I could even go back to Chicago again.
I still would prefer Chicago to L.A. for Siggraph though.
That's how safe I feel in L.A. :-(.
I guess I've just kinda burnt out on Big Cities.
Well now that I've brought everyone else down. I suppose I better quietly go
back to lurking.
Keep up the Good work James!
Murph'
They could always hold Siggraph here in Portland. The town isn't that crime
ridden, and the weather actually isn't all that bad in August.
And then there is always San Jose, San Fransico, Boston, Seattle, Pennsylvania,
and there has to be plenty of others out there.
I don't know how bad the crime is in Pennsylvainia (sp?), as I've never been
there, but I was in Boston last year, and it didn't seem to bad. The subways
were clean and I never noticed anything that really put me off the city, except
the drivers, that is (g).
the rest of the cities I've spent plenty of time in and never felt particularly
threatend.
just my .02…
Siggraph *was* in Chicago in 1992. New Orleans in August? Sounds like they're
buying the least expensive convention space they can find. But look on the
bright side. Kevin Gibson will be hosting a seven-day, 24-hour-a-day Mardi
Gras bash at his house during the entire Siggraph 96!
>>> Kevin Gibson will be hosting <<<
Who?
Murph'
Not interested in the Disneyland scene. We have a bigger theme park
here in FL that we visit several time a year.:) I'm more interested
in touring the coast line and the desert. Might even try some diving
if I get the ambition to take my gear along. Let's see, a dry suit,
mask, regulator and my U/W camera. The rest I can rent.
>>Not interested in the Disneyland scene. We have a bigger theme park here in
FL that we visit several time a year.:)
I know what you mean. We made a trip down there (from Gainesville)
last weekend, and it was ridiculous. Tourists, tourists,
everywhere!!!!! We went to their new water park, Blizzard Beach (set
up like a ski resort with water slides, cute!!) anyway for two
people it cost $55 just to walk in the door. And then their chair
lift broke and people were stuck up in the air for over an hour. It
was kind of funny watching the Disney crew trying to throw towels and
water bottles to the people on the chair lift. <g>
They've got quite a racket going on down there. Give me the beach and I'll be
fine…..<g>
Andrew Sinagra
Digital Art & Motion
Sure you're from Florida? Most locals know not to venture to Disney World on
Easter (holiday) weekend. We always have a great time, buying Florida
residents passes and going the off days when the lines are almost non-existent.
At any rate we always budget about $200 per day for a family of 3 to include
entrance, disney budget hotel and food. The food is usually the biggest part
of it but we have discovered tricks around this cost as well.
>> Most locals know not to venture to Disney World on Easter (holiday) weekend
Yea, I know, but my girlfriend REALLY wanted to go, soooo………….
Usually when we go we try to go in the middle of the week and its not too bad.
We used to have the yearly passes, which saved a lot but lately we haven't been
down there very often. When I'm out there for SigGraph I would like to see the
new simulation ride, I think it is the Indiana Jones ride. I heard it being
hyped up on TV when they opened. Too bad you can't pay for just one ride……
Andrew Sinagra
Digital Art & Motion