CompuServe Thread

#OED

21 messages in this thread
#20933From: Allen K. JonesMay 3, 1992 6:04 PM
Frank Frank & Lisa: I am getting the point now. I have gotten so used to paying $10 to $25 for high quality paperbacks, and $45 to $75 for good hardbound books, and even more for books with good quality reproductions of artwork, that I had assumed that it cost a lot of money to print and ship the things. Mac-World had a article a month or two ago about the cost of producing CD-ROMS. Having gotten used to paying $9 to $17 for recorded music on CD, and looked at the cost of CD-ROM disks, I was shocked to find out that once a master recording is produced, and a master CD is produced, (for about $1,000,) the individual CD's are stamped out and put in those little plastic boxes with the printed inserts for under $2 each! And that is with a production run as small as 1000 CD's! When you think of a hit album on CD, that sells a million copies at $15 each, you are thinking of 13 million greenbacks to spread around. Even a classical recording, something obscure, say, the Amsterdam Guitar trio, who might sell 20,000 copies of their latest, (and truly sublime) transcription of the Brandenburg Concertos. If they retail at $14 each, you are talking sales of $239,000 above production costs. So if the retailers take half, you still have $119.500 to distribute the thing, and pay yourself. There be money in those silver discs.,
#20960From: Frank/Lisa RichardsMay 4, 1992 9:28 AM
Unfortunately, for some of the really specialized refernce works, 20,000 sales is an impossible dream. For our disk of New Hampshire legal stuff it would be 100% market penetration–not only every lawyer in New Hampshire but also every Law School in the US and most of the giant New York and Boston law firms as well. And then we _might_ hit 20,000. Wherefore we have to price to get our development money back on a few hundred sales. Frank
#21042From: Vic WagnerMay 5, 1992 6:43 PM
Yup, I'd certainly buy it at US$80. I might even consider writing some additional software to make 'browsing' more fun.
#21014From: Richard DayMay 5, 1992 12:36 AM
Hmmmm…! Lets see, if we "list" the OED at $400 and sell 20,000 copies and get to keep 50 percent after the retailers have had their bite, then subtract our production costs … well, gee, we've not quite made $4-million. On the other hand, we could list it at $950, figure on selling maybe 5,000 copies to the "must have" library crowd … heck, we'd make around $2.3-million and we would not lose our "Rolls Royce" image. Of course, we British never were driven by the profit motive – too demeaning – that's what used car salesmen in L.A. are driven by, no? Regds Ric
#21016From: Bruce De VriesMay 5, 1992 1:58 AM
I feel the to OED has the potential to be as big a seller as Microsoft Bookshelf. If you listed the disk at $80 I'm sure you could sell well over 100,000 copies, because even occasional dictionary users would buy it just to have the ultimate in dictionaries. Yearly updates could be provided and you could make more money on support software like on-line spelling checkers. This lower price would allow a lot more people to benefit from your research and I believe that your contributers want the maximum number of people to benefit from their efforts. It is not even possible to receive a decent discount on the current product. Please reconsider the price of the new OED! Thank you. Sincerely Bruce P. De Vries Public libraries are being faced with ever decreasing budgets and many will not be able to afford the OED CD-ROM, plus the drive and computer needed to access it. I'm sure there are 5000 libriary that will order it though, but you could be in a lot more places if the price was lower.
#21139From: Richard DayMay 7, 1992 8:46 PM
Bruce — missed a couple of days on CIS due to work pressures, so sorry for the delayed reply. >> If you listed the disk at $80 … I don't sell it! I'm one of the very many potential buyers out there who (like you from the sound of your message) would dearly love to see OUP wake up and sell the disk at a more realistic price! Yes (to your PS), libraries are facing budget problems. I did a little "freebie" consulting with an American graduate school who wanted to automate their library system last year and it was very clear they were doing some hard thinking about what they purchased and what it cost. The problem, for now at least, is there is no real alternative (read: competition) for the OED, and so OUP can get away with that incredible price. Regds Ric
#21145From: Bruce De VriesMay 7, 1992 11:29 PM
Sorry, Ric the way your were talking I thought you were an employee of the publisher. I wonder if they read this conference.
#21157From: Richard DayMay 8, 1992 9:23 AM
No problem, Bruce. I spent a lot of years in (print, mainly) publishing, and have some idea of the underlying costs of getting information onto bound sheets of paper. Somehow doubt OUP read this forum, but we can always hope! Maybe someone from one of the resellers here (Bureau, DAK?) might "clip" some of this thread and pass it along … Regds Ric
#21164From: Bruce De VriesMay 8, 1992 10:53 AM
Rather than hoping they will read it we could mail it to them ourselves. Does anyone have an address for the publisher of OED?
#21306From: Richard DayMay 12, 1992 10:53 PM
Bruce – For a great many years, their address was simply Oxford University Press, Ely House, London W.1, England. However, that adress is maybe 18 years old (I don't throw away old address books <g>), so may well have changed. Perhaps someone else on this forum has a reasonably current Oxford dictionary – should have the publisher's address in it. If anyone has a more reliable address than the one I have, I would be happy to dump a copy of this thread to paper and mail it to them with a cover note. Ric
#21353From: Mark X. CroninMay 14, 1992 12:29 AM
I have a compact edition O.E.D. published in 1982. In it they list their address as Oxford University Press Walton Street, Oxford OX26DP. If any of the Oxford folks check out CServe, I'll add my two cents to say that I would buy it on cd-rom for under $200 (and that's only because I love it so much), more than that and it remains in the hands of the institutions and the fabulously wealthy.
#21391From: Richard DayMay 15, 1992 4:36 AM
Mark – thanks for the address. Looks like they have been moving about. I just got the New York office address from Bill, so will go with that for now. Regds Ric
#21048From: Bill McHughMay 5, 1992 9:00 PM
Richard: are you aware if there is a new CD version of the OED coming out soon? I plan to buy one shortly. By the way, if the price were $400 I would buy two. –Bill
#21140From: Richard DayMay 7, 1992 8:46 PM
Bill — yes, I know a new version is coming out. What I am praying for, is more realistic pricing from OUP. At $400 I would be a definite buyer; at $800 or more, it becomes a "do I really need this?" product and I will think long and hard about what else I might do with that money. As others have said in this thread, I think there is a large – probably very large – potential market for OED priced much lower than it is now. Friends at Sony in Japan told me years ago, when they were first geting into video recorders (remember the old BetaMax?) that they had calculated the mass market for electronic products began around the $400 mark; above that, techno-buffs and the I-must-have-this-first crowd would pay the price, but represented a small market which was not too profitable. So, Sony's early push (matched by the VHS inventors JVC, and their parent Matsushita) was to find engineering solutions to bring the retail price to the $400 and under level. If you go back today and graph price against sales volume, you will see the video recorder market "exploded" after prices dropped under $400. More recently, a Japanese business friend told me he thought maybe the threshold had shifted up a little, toward $500, but that he thought inflation since the mid-70's had not really had much impact on consumer thinking in this (price) area. This seems to me to hold true when you look at the prices of most major software packages: WordPerfect, 1-2-3 et al list around $500 but are commonly sold at prices under $400… Oh well, we can just hope someone with influence at OUP wakes up to the market they are missing… Regds Ric
#21142From: Bill McHughMay 7, 1992 11:15 PM
Certainly agree Ric. And remember they have no real concern about piracy of CDs. A $500 price would be acceptable to most people who could use the OED. Keeps the price of the drive and software under a thousand. –Bill
#21146From: robin lakeMay 7, 1992 11:47 PM
Richard, Don't forget that it is possible to charge more to "commercial" users, such as libraries, than to individuals. Have your cake…. robin
#21158From: Richard DayMay 8, 1992 9:23 AM
Yes, many companies do charge more to commercial users. But, in these recessionary times, I suspect more commercial users are becoming a lot more aware of those prices and the alternatives which are often available. You only have to look at the growth of mail-order sales of PCs to corporations who a few years ago would have bought Big Blue only … When I lived and worked in Hong Kong, we took a look at what we were paying for PC software (and what we were getting) and found it significantly less expensive to buy from US mail-order vendors; our local "authorized" distributors sold at prices typically 20 to 50 percent over US list and provided none of the after-sales support you would expect in the US from outfits like WordPerfect. Those same pricing policies, presumably sanctioned by WordPerfect, Lotus et al, also contributed to lots of piracy problems. Regds Ric
#21189From: robin lakeMay 8, 1992 11:50 PM
Ric, I guess your are suggesting that the libraries would pretend that they are single users, and order OED at the reduced price. Perhaps, but, being public institutions, I feel that they would be unlikely to violate their license (which would, of course, be different for libraries than individuals). Any library user could turn them in. robin
#21308From: Richard DayMay 12, 1992 10:53 PM
Robin – no, I don't think libraries would violate their licenses; I do think they would tend to seek out vendors (eg, Bureau of Electronic Publishing) who might be able to offer lower prices than "publisher direct." There is a real problem with many of those "licenses" however, and that relates to LAN usage. If a library has a CD-ROM on a LAN, how is it charged? How do you differentiate multiple accesses by one user in one session from multiple users? Jim Seymour has, IMHO, a very good article on Windows-LAN-software pricing in the May 12 issue of PC Magazine; CD-ROMs and ever-faster jukeboxes may be a bigger problem yet: libraries are going to want to network and jukebox their ROMS because having one ROM player per terminal will make no financial sense at all. I don't know how/if this is billed right now, but I do see it as an "issue" for CD-ROM publishers and their pricing. Regds Ric
#21407From: Adrian Godfrey [D]May 15, 1992 8:23 PM
Robin, >> commercial users That seems to be the problem with practically everything. If the customer is a company, then the price doesn't really seem to matter too much as they can always claim it back as a business expense. Adrian
#21564From: Vic WagnerMay 20, 1992 5:05 PM
Adrian, Depends on the size of the company. Sure we can claim it back as a business expense (we don't pay taxes on it), but I'd rather be able to write paychecks.