CompuServe Thread

#"Save 80% on render"?

7 messages in this thread
#42913From: Martin KunertMay 6, 1993 12:52 AM
This is a long shot, so humor me if go off the deep end. I have a suggestion for a IPAS (if they can do it) or a 3DS enhancment that may cut down rendering time by 80% and give rendered videos a more "film" feel. Here goes… Being involved in film and video, I have found that people differantiate between the two mediums by look (video is higher contrast than film) and the feel of motion. That "feel of motion" comes from video refeshing at 30fps and film at 24fps. That 6fps difference gives video a more live feel. Especially if you consider that the illusion of motion starts at only 12 to 13 fps. When film is transferred to video, that 6fps difference is handled by step-printing the video. On your VCR you can see this by playing it slow – every forth frame or so is a duplicate of the previous. I'm sure that if a IPSA routine could be made to mimick this stop printing, you would have two benefits: A) you'ld only have to render 24 frames for a second of video; B) you'ld get a more film "feel" to it. What do you guys think?
#42915From: Gus GrubbaMay 6, 1993 1:54 AM
There is a lot more that make up the differences between video and film. The grain, color linearity (a ccd "sees" colors differently than the silver nitrate cristals in films) and some other odd ball physical characteristics. This is food for thought. There is no clean way of doing this from an IPAS but… there are some interesting hacks to do that. It all depends on how you're layering the images to tape/disk. Greg, what do you think?
#43288From: [F] Grant Blaha [Adesk]May 10, 1993 8:57 PM
I remember a panel discussion the ILM gave about the effects in T2. They said something to the effect about spending a long time perfecting a good film grain effect. They obviously did something right. I wish they would have written a paper about it. Sigh.
#43321From: Gus GrubbaMay 11, 1993 5:08 AM
I've done some work on this myself. I have developed a "software" version of a process to make a video image look like film but the amount of calculations involved is ridiculous. At last count it was taking almost 4 minutes to process each frame on a 486/66. I've reduced a little the number of interations to a point where, at 30 fps, it can't realy be noticeable and sent the stuff to Greg [Pyros] so he could try this in large scale. I can rotoscope out of my laser disk but the interface is rather crude. I have to do it all by hand! Greg should be able to run a batch and a have a short sequence to experiment. So far a single image looks pretty interesting.
#42936From: Stan Kalisher (Impulse)May 6, 1993 7:52 AM
Actually, Martin, the way that film is transferred to video is referred to as a 3:2 pulldown. Every frame of video has two fields. During the transfer, every other film frame is given a third field. The 12 additional fields per second compensate for the missing 6 frames. There are processes available which give video this "film look." I think it would be very interesting to see the technique applied to animation. –Rick
#42948From: Yost GroupMay 6, 1993 10:10 AM
I think that it would be an interesting avenue to explore, but it's probably quite a bit more complicated than just 24fps. Film grain, chromaticity, gamma, and other physical properties are just as important to its "look" as the fps. Since I'm not an expert on film physics, I can't really make any specific comments. – G
#42964From: ALAN IGLESIASMay 6, 1993 11:08 AM
Martin, I rather agree with Gus' assessment of the many differences between video and film and their "look and feel". Film is actually made of layers of _emulsion_, which is an organic substance that holds the silver nitrate grains that react to the light during exposure. I get the feeling that a large part of what we consider "film quality" comes from the way these grains are suspended in the emulsion, and then react to the light while filming. (Not to mention all the different resolutions, timings, color temps, etc.) This may sound a little simplistic, but I would love to see the result of, instead of recording to video tape, burning each frame of an animation to a film recorder at approximately video resolution. The apparent detail would be the same as VTR recording but may aquire the characteristics of film that we may, at some times, be looking for. In Babylon 5, there was a bit of a dicontinuity when they cut to video effects from filmed live action that you don't notice in, say, Star Trek, although I have read that many of thier effects originate on video. Maybe this technique could be used to better integrate desktop 3D animation with network-level television? Just some thoughts… -Alan Iglesias