#Whatz an Amiga?
35 messages in this thread
Hello everyone –
I've heard for some time what great machines Amigas are for doing videotape
effects and editing work. I'm thinking of getting into that area and am
wondering if anyone here would be willing to give me a quick rundown on the
Amiga product line (as well as the "Video Toaster") and what they can do in
terms of working with video.
I've worked with IBM compatibles for years, so I'm familiar with computer
concepts, I'm just not too sure what the Amiga line does in terms of video.
Any and all answers will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Tom
Tom:
You'll probably get a fair bit of response to your questions but I figure
I might as well give you my 2" worth…
Currently the hottest Amiga systems are the A4000 and A1200 which are
destined to be the new standard. Each one supports 8bit (256 colours out
of 16.8 mil) resolution independant colour graphics from 200×320 through
1280×400. There is also a special display mode called HAM8 which displays
256,000 screen colours. The Amigas strength for video is that it outputs
at NTSC/PAL video resolutions thus bypassing a signal converters that are
required with VGA. The A4000 with it's 68040 chip can run 256K
animations in real time at 30-60 fps.
There are a number of things that has made the Amiga special from the very
first A1000. All systems have co-processor chips which take care of
video, i/o, and 8bit stereo audio. These chips relieve some of the burden
off the CPU which is free to do other things such as load the next
animation frame while one is being displayed. AmigaDOS is an efficient
preempted multitasking operating system which allows for multiple tasks to
happen simultaneously and communicate with each other. This is usefull
for video by allowing synced audio and video. It is also good for
development because various programs that deal with different elements of
a project can be run together and share data.
There are numerous products including the Toaster which are available for
video work. I'll let someone else answer those questions. I hope this
starts to answer your questions.
Andrew Porter
Thanks! Are there any books explaining video effects/editing on the
Amiga which you could recommend?
I get the majority of my information from magazines and networks such
as CIS. There are a number of books on multimedia and Amiga video,
specifically but I don't have any and couldn't make any
recommendations.
However, if you get yourself a copy of "AC's Guide to the Amiga"
(published by PiM (800)345-3360) which should be coming out soon
(published twice a year, winter & summer) it lists books, videos and
other educational materials along with a nearly complete listing of
ALL Amiga products and services. There is a magazine called "Video
Toaster User" which deals with, well, the video toaster (published by
AVID (800)886-0048 US$36/yr) which has good professional coverage and
"Amiga Video/Graphics" (published by Pacific Media, (800)233-4284)
which has more general coverage. The other two Amiga specific
publications, "Amiga World" & "A/C Amiga" are both worthwhile but
usually deal with very generalized topics. Also, various open
platform video mags might be useful.
I generally find mags are a better source of info than books because
the info is more current but as I mentioned there are some books &
videos out there. You might be able to get an personal intoduction
by contacting a local Amiga or Toaster dealer/user group. Also, if
you call NewTek at (800) 765-3406 you will be able to receive a FREE
demo tape.
Anyway, I hope this info is useful to you.
Andrew
Andrew –
Thanks! I'll call NewTek for the tape.
Tom
Tom:
Your welcome. If you have any other questions just drop a line.
BTW, what sort of stuff do you want to do?
Andrew
>>BTW, what sort of stuff do you want to do?<<
I'm interested in the possibility of using video special effects in feature
films. Is there anyone here working in that area?
Tom
>>I'm interested in the possibility of using video special effects in
>>feature films. Is there anyone here working in that area?
I've heard of the Amiga being used for titling and stuff like that and
come to think of it there was coverage in AW last year of one company
using it. Of course in TV land there are numerous programs that use the
Toaster & other products for FX and CG. By FX I assume you mean
Terminator II type effects with morphing and such. The applications are
there for that and others.
I'm not in the INDUSTRY so I can't say for sure or give you specific
examples.
Andrew
>>By FX I assume you mean Terminator II type effects with morphing and such.
The applications are there for that and others.<<
Not specifically the "cutting edge" stuff like morphing (which, as far as I
understand, still requires a sizeable investment to return "broadcast quality"
stuff) but relatively simple things like animation and image compositing.
Tom
You mentioned that it was for feature films. Do you mean television
features or cinematic releases? I have often thought of using my system
for animation services but I soon realized that my rendering skills where
insufficient. Ah, the curse of being colour blind and tone deaf. 😎 Now,
I just use it for EMail and various half finished projects…
Andrew
Andrew –
My interest is primarily in small-screen (i.e. TV and home video) features at
this point. That's why the Amiga seemed attractive – more "bang for the buck"
so to speak.
Tom
Nope – you can do cutting edge morphing with three Amiga packages;
Imagemaster, ImageFx/Cinemorph and Morph+. You can do cutting edge
morphing on the PC with one: Our own WinImages:morph; and as I understand
it, ASDG has just released the first professional morphing package for the
Mac, also. (BTW – there is another paackage for the mac, but it's
described even by it's creators as a "toy" – they're also planning on
releasing it on the PC/windows platform, but it appeaaras to be the same
level, which is to say, not "cutting edge").
Imagemaster in particular (our product) I can tell you is in use in _many_
"cutting edge" venues – major motion pictures, tv shows, commercials,
mutimedia centers in major corporations, etc.
The investment isn't maajor to get the software; where you pay is in the
computing power to support large images done in shorter time frames,
output recording devices for film, and so on. Even a single-fram recorder
for VHS video is painful. But morphing – no.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Ben: It must have chagrined you to see Gryphon's "Morph" product for the
Mac receive an SPA award for "most innovative software" of the year, when
it isn't in your stuff's league.
Ben –
Can you give me a phone # or address for your company? I'd like to get some
more information on the products you mentioned.
Tom
>Not specifically the "cutting edge" stuff like morphing (which, as far as
>I understand, still requires a sizeable investment to return "broadcast
>quality" stuff) but relatively simple things like animation and image
>compositing.
There have been several instances were the Amiga was used to do morphs in
`broadcast quality', for example Babylon 5.
Btw, `simple things' like animation WILL require `a sizeable investment'
for things like 24-bit boards, SF decks, Large HD, ect…. Same that would
be needed for morphing.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Tony –
I never saw Babylon 5. Was it any good (aside from the FX?)
Tom
One specific example I have seen is the Walt Disney World uses the Amiga
during their live shows. I actually saw not one but two Amigas in use at
the Walt Disney World MGM Studios Temple of Doom show. Of course, they
weren't doing special video effects, but must have been doing sound mixing
or something like it. I was so surpised that a real company with such
high visibility as Walt Disney World is using Amigas. Unfortunately, Walt
Disney World doesn't allow anyone to endorse the products they use by
saying they are used at Walt Disney World, what a shame :-< I think it
would be great hype for the popularity of the machine if more people knew
that it was being used by such a place as Walt Disney World.
Its interesting that I didn't recognize the software being used by the
Amiga. I wonder if it was custom built by Walt Disney World? Its also
interesting that I asked in information if they had heard of or knew where
I could get a copy of Walt Disney Animator for the Amiga. All I got was
blank stares. The tried to find out for me but were unable to. Its
interesting that at a park that uses Amigas on a daily basis there are
employees who have not even heard of it yet are in charge of information
at the park itself. They even sell games for IBMS and even C-64's but not
for the Amiga. Once again unfortunate because the Amiga is such a great
platform for games. Even though, I know its great for all types of work.
Too bad Oracle wouldn't port their database to the Amiga.
Bradlee Sargent
Disney uses the Amigas to syncronize all of the live stunt show effects.
The software was created by their software development department.
Disney was so excited about how well the Amigas performed, they would have
gladly talked about it in detail along with a tour for the columnists, but
they had a major contract with a higher-end company who disapproved of
Disney's endorsing the Amiga. They were probably bothered that their mini
computers were getting less enthusiasm. *8D
-= Vance =-
That *is* interesting. Of course, while Walt Disney "the person" was by all
accounts a terrific human being, his co. has acquired a reputation that is in
some ways rather tarnished. I'm sorry to hear that they're that confused
internally (that they couldn't tell you where to get their own products for the
Amiga).
Tom
I do special FX tho I've NEVER done any work at FILM RESOLUTION. I only
use Video Resolution for my morphing and other FX.
>>I do special FX tho I've NEVER done any work at FILM RESOLUTION. I only use
Video Resolution for my morphing and other FX.<<
What kind of work do you do? TV or feature, or other types? And what is "film
resolution" as opposed to "video resolution"?
Tom
I do mostly work for Hobbyists looking to spruce up their Video's a bit as
well as a Student Film's FX a while back.
Video Rez is APPROX 752*480 tho it hovers in that area not at that REZ al
the time but in that Range. For Film you need to use IMHO at least
2048*2048 REZ.
Most of my work is done for my own enjoyment and too show off to my
Buddies tho the truth be told.
Peter,
It sounds like your hobby closely resembles what I am looking for. I need a
notebook for work but want the capability to tinker in my hobby of video and
music mixing. I currently have a PC notebook but am looking to upgrade. I was
considering a Mac but want to know more about the Amiga since it seems geared
to multimedia. Can you offer any suggestions for a killer system or some
magazines for more information?
>>For Film you need to use IMHO at least 2048*2048 REZ.<<
Will the Amiga (and/or Toaster) go that high in resolution? How many colors
can you display on the screen at once at that resolution?
Tom
Tom: Interjecting here, there are a couple of books that describe Amiga
desktop video. One is the Amiga Desktop Video Workbook, and another is the
Amiga Multimedia Workbook. These are oversized volumes that come with PD
software. Frankly, they may be a tad out of date unless they've been
updated since the Amigas with Advanced Graphics Architecture were
released. But they'll give you a flavor for the whole thing. There are a
couple of other books, too. They don't tend to be widely available in the
Mac/PC only computer sections in typical bookstores, though, so you might
have to get them from a mail-order shop.
The best way to get a feel for all this, short of looking over an Amiga
DTV user's shoulder, is to look over some of the many Amiga-specific
videos out there. There are a bunch of modestly priced VHS cassettes that
cover various facets of doing Amiga graphics and video, and these might
make a good yet inexpensive introduction. Check out any Amiga mail-order
dealer in the various Amiga-specific magazines for more info. You can also
get a *free* VHS/Hi8/laserdisc/et.al. demo tape of the Video Toaster by
calling Newtek's 800 line in Topeka, KS. Wonderful stuff. Also, there are
a couple of Amiga-specific cassettes showing off finished work, which are
truly inspiring.
Much has changed in the past year, thanks in part to the Video Toaster.
Lots of new high-end hardware and software relating to multimedia, DTV and
presentations has arrived for the Amiga platform and more is on the way.
Despite the impression people may have left you, something to bear in mind
is that on the Amiga you can get away in many cases with software-only
solutions to video effects work. The Video Toaster is fabulous, but
nothing in principle would prevent you from doing similar work in software
only, given enough RAM. E.g., there are DVE-type utilities like Scala
MM210, Animation Station, ImageFX, Imagemaster, Art Department
Professional, TV*Show, and many more that handle digital effects in
software. The best of the lot may be Scala, which in another incarnation
is being used on many cable TV systems to manage active text screens
complete with real-time special effects.
I've used TV Text Professional, a $99 program, to do pro-quality CG for
cable TV productions. There are much more powerful alternatives on the
Amiga that are somewhat more expensive, but the point is that even
"low-end" software can be quite powerful.
One especially nice Amiga capability is Animfonts. These are really not
fonts but instead animated "brushes" in a format standard to most Amiga
programs but intended for use in animation and paint programs. They work
in terms of a character set. So, for instance, you can have a glowing,
8-color 3D "fuse" burning into existence across the screen, across a
graphics background or genlocked video, writing out a message as it goes;
that sort of thing. Very, very easy to accomplish with modestly priced
software, and it's immediately transferrable to video via a genlock or
encoder. Hardly any work at all! Also there are Colorfonts, which are 3D
color fonts that will work in almost any word processor, paint program or
video titler.
For higher quality work you can add third-party hardware like scanners,
digitizers, 24- and 32-bit framebuffers, time base correctors, sequencers,
genlocks, and A/B roll editing systems.
Music and sound is fast becoming an Amiga strength. You get 8-bit, 4-voice
digital audio standard on every Amiga, but there are third-party 16-bit
boards that will let you do pro-quality sequencing and recording.
Important because if you're doing a soundtrack you want to be able to
merge high fidelity stereo sound with a video or a presentation, complete
with SMPTE code. The Amiga multitasks beautifully and with low RAM
overhead, and a system-level interprocess language (AREXX) makes it
possible for virtually any application to work with any other, passing
data back and forth and controlling external resources.
I've worked with Amigas, PCs and Macs and equipped a cable TV studio with
two Amigas. For video purposes, on a price-performance basis the Amiga
wins hands down.
Good luck in your musings.
Ron –
Wow! Thanks for all the information. I guess my first step should be to do a
little research in the video area so I can find out what all those terms mean!
🙂
Thanks again,
Tom
I see you already got a reply about Amigas so I will add a little about
the Video Toaster.
The Video Toaster is a board that works with Amiga 2000 series. It has 4
video inputs and 2 Framebuffers from which you can do cuts,wipes, fades,
DVE transitions (video-taped inputs need TBCs), also has a Character
Generator for titles and Luminance Keyer. You can also proccess video with
effects like color-negatives, ect.. ToasterPaint, a 24-bit paint program
is bundled as well as LightWave which is a 3D animation program with LOTS
of features. (I bought the Toaster just to get LightWave). There is also a
frame-grabber for FULL-Screen video and stores them in 24-bit.
There is a NEW version of this board called Toaster4000 which works as I
mentioned above but will work on ANY Amiga 2000/3000/4000. The Toaster
will NOT work on any A500,1000,1200 since these do not have video slots.
As far as Amigas go, they are used in video to add titles and add computer
generated animations and/or overlayed to video. Since Amigas use 15Khz
video signal they don't require much to convert to NTSC. You could do alot
with a Amiga, a Genlock and the proper program to control decks, if you
want to edit. If you'd like to add lots of effects like DVEs, ect… then
you will probably want to also get a Toaster.
I hope I have helped.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Tony –
So it sounds like you need both an Amiga and a Toaster to do effects as well as
editing. Can you give me some idea of how much a rig like that would cost?
Thanks,
Tom
To do real-time DVEs, wipes and cuts you will need a Toaster but if al you
are going to do is simple editing you can use an Amiga with a Genlock and
a program like Director,ect…
Cost of a Toaster system depends on what configuration you will get but a
basic system will be:
1 Amiga 2000 $1,000
1 030 accel $500-600
Extra ram $500-1,000
1 VT board $2,200
Large HD $500-1,500
Assorted software like AD-Pro, Toaster ToolKit, DPaint, Interchange or
PixelPro, ect… Add a few hundred $$.
The following video equipment is based on HI-8 or S-VHS equipment.
1 Camera $500-3,000
2 VTRs $2,000-3,000
1 SF-VTR $5,000 and up. This would be for LightWave animations.
X TBCs $600-800 a piece. You need one for each VTR input.
As you can see a nice set-up can be QUITE expensive, upwards of
$10,000-15,000. If you already have editing decks then you are that
much closer. I don't have any video equipment yet since I am just a
hobbiest at home and mostly interested in 3D animation.
Anthony, your price quoting is WAY too high! The A3000 sells for
under $1000 nowadays!!! The A2000 is about $500 **NEW** and the
Toaster is about $1900. You might want to clarify your statement or
let us know where you got that pricing…
>Anthony, your price quoting is WAY too high!
I was quoting dealer prices because it seemed that this individual might
need help so I wasn't going to tell him to get everything from
mail-order.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
Tony –
Thanks for the info! I don't know all the video "buzzwords" yet so some of the
stuff you mentioned doesn't mean much to me, but I suspect as I pick up the
lingo it will make more sense.
Tom
>Thanks for the info!
No problem.
>I don't know all the video "buzzwords" yet…
What are you planing to do if you get a Toaster system? If I remember you
are a IBM user and became interested in the Amiga, right? WHY?
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>
>>What are you planing to do if you get a Toaster system? If I remember you are
a IBM user and became interested in the Amiga, right? WHY?<<
I'm interested in the Amiga/Toaster because of it's video capabilities
(something that in the IBM world was noticeably lacking until recently). People
I've talked to say that the Toaster can do everything which $50,000 of
"old-style" video editing equipment can do.
Primarily what I'm interested in at this point is (1) 2 and 3-D animation and
(2) video editing, including titling. The animation would add "production
value" to projects without increasing the cost like going to an effects house,
and the editing/titling capability would keep postproduction costs down.
Tom
>I'm interested in the Amiga/Toaster because of it's video capabilities
This combination excels in this department.
>Primarily what I'm interested in at this point is (1) 2 and 3-D animation
>and (2) video editing, including titling.
The Toaster comes with a 24-bit paint program but it doesn't do any 2D
animation, although you could do that with something like Deluxe-Paint 4
or Brilliance.
It comes with LightWave a 3D program which is probably the BEST around and
with the new Toaster (T4000) you WILL be able to play the anims in
`Real-Time' which will considerably reduce the amount of money which was
previously needed to do the same.
If you REALLY want a Toaster my advice would be to wait until the New
Toaster is released and by a A4000 for it, since these new features will
only work on a AGA Amiga.
<<< Tony D. Tracer >>>