#Gamma
6 messages in this thread
John,
At the risk of sounding to casual about it, I agree with Bill. I realise the
frustration you're going through but I believe this is as a result that you're
making this gamma thing more complicated than it really is.
The default values of 1.8 works very well. If your boxes don't match it its not
that critical. As Bill said its what looks good and the boxes are to be used as
guide only, not as gospel. The important thing is to be consistent with
whatever values you choose. Work with the default for awhile and get a feeling
for how gamma works. Experiment. Understand what happens when you change the
gamma setting for the display and the framebuffer etc. The irony is, that once
you've experimented with all the possible combinations you'll more than likely
find a value in the range of 1.6 – 2.0 that you like. As I said, I use the
default. But its a good exercise to fully understand gamma, so its well worth
taking the time. I view it as another tool to achieve the look I want. Lower
values are colder, higher values are warmer in video.
-JE
I appreciate your reply — I'm not really that frustrated, I'm just curious why
"the guide" is so far off. I've been using 1.9 for monitor gamma since I got
R3 (I spent about a week playing with different settings and found that 1.8-1.9
looks pretty good on my system). The question of why the boxes were off by so
much (big difference between 1.25 and 1.8!) has been bouncing around in the
back of my head since then, and since I'm about ready to start rendering the
final for my demo reel, I just decided to see if anyone else knew why this
ideosyncracy existed (on only my system, it seems…). I am a "twidget" by
trade and a perfectionist by nature. <g>
Thanks again for the reply —
–John
PS — Thanks to everyone who jumped in on this one – It's still not resolved,
but the thread has been somewhat enlightening!
John,
Not to beat a dead horse, but basically it boils down to this. Everyone has a
different monitor. So in order to create some semblance of uniformity the Gamma
Boxes were created to help in determining a default setting for monitors.
Unfortuneately, its a little more complicated than the boxes can fully account
for though the Yost Group did there best with what is currently possible. If we
all just worked in the SVGA environment it would be fairly straightforward as
it is with programs like photostyler etc. The problems arise with different
monitors and different display cards and different framebuffers. What works for
your Display card won't necessarily and probably won't work for your
Framebuffer. Then to make matters worse when working with NTSC, NTSC has gamma
correction built in to its specifications, to its damn near impossible to make
this box thing work. Here in lies the greatest challenge. So you add all these
factors together and what do you get, mass confusion!
It took several of us with extensive video background to go through manuals
contact video engineers and equipment managers to come up with values that work
in the video domain. The Targa 32+ was a big problem because by default it
gamma corrected because at a resolution of 512×486 it conformed to NTSC specs,
which inherently compensate for gamma, also known as hardware gamma correction.
Because 3DS's gamma correction is superior it took about a month to find out
the best way to get it disabled so that the 3DS gamma correction could be
utilised. Without making this anymore long winded than it is, suffice it to say
each piece of equipment on the video side had to analyzed to determine what its
affect on 3DS gamma was. Many video devices like VTR do not do gamma correction
but some do. The PAR fortuneatley doesn't and the AT-Vista doesn't. Then
different Video monitors need different amounts of correction.
So you have to experiment to see what works best for you. If you ask what
different people have their gamma set at you'll get a variety of answer's.
Anyway, glad you're not frustrated by it, and you can achieve some really
outstanding results when you've got it right. So its well worth the effort.
-JE
Regarding the gray boxes, what you have there is simply a single-pixel
checkerboard inside a medium-gray border (or is it the other way around?).
Anyway, the checkerboard consists of alternating black and white pixels that
appear to be medium gray at any distance. As you adjust the display gamma, 3ds
alters the luminance of the solid gray. If there was no such thing as a gamma
curve, and all displays were completely linear (don't we wish), a solid gray
value of 127,127,127 would appear the same as the black and white checkers.
Theoretically, when you adjust the solid gray to match the _apparent_ gray of
the checkers, your display gamma should be balanced. In reality, we've found
that certain monitor displays don't always work like that. NTSC monitors, for
example, often throw things off. It may be that your monitor is bleeding the
pixels slightly (ouch) so the black/white checkers appear a different value of
gray, etc., etc.
If, as you say, you like "twidgeting," you could try rendering a checkerboard
that's 2×2 pixels and check it out from across the room while squinting your
eyes. Since gamma is a voodoo art, you might want to first sprinkle some
chicken blood on the keyboard.
– Jack
>> Since gamma is a voodoo art, you might want to first sprinkle some chicken
blood on the keyboard. <<
Jack, that is a classic statement and I'm glad you said it! I wouldn't dare,
not around here. <BG>
-JE
>>Since gamma is a voodoo art, you might want to first sprinkle some chicken
blood on the keyboard.<<
That's how I do it <g>. And the mojo bones I have taped to my framebuffer and
ethernet cards help, too <g>
John Tissavary (LUNA cie)