#PG2 Question
18 messages in this thread
I recenty had a problem when I loaded a FC2 document into Proper Grammer 1
and then saved it back to disk. When loaded back into FC2 my machine would
crash! After a few dozen tries, I got through to tech support. They
offered me a "disk only" upgrade to Proper Grammer 2 which should solve my
problems.
I recently thought of a question, Has the AREXX port in PG2 changed any
from PG1 and if so, how can I get documentation of the changes.
-J (Wandering around on AutoPilot)
Jay,
The user interface and its support features have not changed. This
includes ARexx. We have only:
1) Added a few more filters and removed one filter. Filters are
file loaders/savers. The one removed was WordPerfect. Some added were
Final Copy II, Prowrite 3.3 and KindWords 3.
2) The gammar engine has been beefed up to include many more
grammar rules. Because of the size of the new grammar engine, it now
requires a hard-drive to run.
3) You may now turn on or off all the rules.
That's all we've done. Hence, documentation for the new version (if
upgrading from the old version) is almost completely redundant.
Ric Fischer
SoftWood Tech Support
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
(602) 431-9151
OK, Great, that's what I wanted to hear!
Thanks for the info.
-J (Wandering around on AutoPilot)
Why was WordPerfect removed, Ric? I've used that feature to translate
files…
Denny,
SoftWood maintains a strong belief in the Amiga computer. I believe
the decision to remove support of Word Perfect files was a statement.
Word Perfect Corp. decided to drop Amiga support. Support for Amiga users
of Word Perfect has now been relegated to the Macintosh support line where
a Macintosh expert must use a book to answer the Amiga user's questions.
The decision was made before my employment with SoftWood began. I
don't know the full story or arguments behind the decision. I _can_ tell
you that I am completely in favor of the decision.
Incidentally, any users that need to be able to convert Word Perfect
files to another word processor's format (hopefully, Final Copy II), can
hang onto their Proper Grammar. If you need to convert lots of other word
processor formats, you should get Proper Grammar II. If you _don't_ need
Word Perfect format support, you can dump your Proper Grammar in favor of
Proper Grammar II (everything from the original is in there, plus a lot of
new file formats and grammar rules).
Hope this helps.
Ric Fischer
SoftWood Tech Support
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
(602) 431-9151
Ric,
I understand the reasoning, but removing functionality to make a statement
doesn't make much sense to me. Especially since WP import makes it easier
for folks to migrate AWAY from WP–just take out the WP _export_. 🙂
Oh well, it's a done deal. Believe me, I've never questioned SoftWood's
support of the Amiga. I was just curious as to why it was taken out. Now I
know.
Thanks,
Denny Atkin
Denny,
There was one thing I neglected to mention. Final Copy II itself can
read WordPerfect files. As well as a couple of other types. Snoop around
in the FCLibs of the Final Copy II drawer and that should give you a clue
as to the few file format we support. (It's not very much, but it
relieves the pain for WordPerfect users.)
By the way, please note that these library are only for reading files.
Writing files is still limited to Final Copy II format and ASCII text.
Ric Fischer
SoftWood Tech Support
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
(602) 431-9151
Good point about FC II. (Which I'd probably have realized myself if I'd
seen it yet. 🙂
I must admit, I think your "statement" is made at the expense of some
users/customers. I just bought PGII, and it's virtually worthless to me
since all my files are in Amiga Word Perfect format. Now I basically just
blew $80, because a company I heard was great to their customers decided
to send WP Corp a message. I've been considering FCII, but I'd rather not
feel like I HAVE to buy it just to make PGII operational. I could
understand NOT ADDING support if this was a new product, but to DROP it
out hurts your customers infinitely more than it hurts WP.
– Derek <<<< leaving the work to AutoPilot >>>>
Derek,
Dropping WordPerfect is a decision that has already been made. It
won't go back into Proper Grammar. Understand that a couple other 'minor'
features removed. I believe space was a consideration. The new grammar
engine is, by far, larger than the previous one.
I'd like to think that dropping WordPerfect will encourage Amiga users
to explore the _current_ Amiga word processing field. If, however, they
are bringing work home, most of them should be using WordPerfect 5.x,
which Proper Grammar couldn't handle anyway.
Thanks for your thoughts. I like it when a Final Copy users expresses
an opinion, it shows they are _thinking_ users.
Ric Fischer
SoftWood Tech Support
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
(602) 431-9151
Ric –
The fact remains that I spent hard-earned money on WordPerfect, and it
has and does fill my word processing needs. There are many people in the
Amiga community who continue to use this program for various reasons, and
I feel the decision for them to explore _current_ Amiga word processors
should be theirs to make, not yours. It seems to me that developers would
want to have their programs appeal to the broadest possible audience, and
removing Word Perfect support cuts out a piece of that audience. As for
me, I would be more likely to buy other products from a company because
they looked out for me (the customer) than because they tried to channel
me down their idea of the "better" path. The issue of program space is a
valid point, though.
ANYWAY, if I decide to buy Final Copy II, there are a few things I'm
interested in. Are there any plans to implement: text output using the
printers fonts (like draft mode, but including the control codes);
HotLinks compatibility (this would be GREAT to have a document in FCII and
PGII at the same time); non-propriatary fonts support, for using all the
fonts already floating around out there (or a utility for making FCII
fonts from other Amiga/PC/Mac font formats)? I've looked over FCII at my
local Amiga dealer, and I'm pretty impressed. I think the things I
mentioned above would make the program even more appealing.
Thanks for your time and information!
– Derek <<<< leaving the work to AutoPilot >>>>
Derek,
I agree that customers should decide, on their own terms, which word
processor they want to use and when they should shop for a new one. I
also know that the Commodore 64 (while still meeting many user's needs) is
no longer a viable means for a developer to make money. The market just
isn't there anymore. The decision to drop Word Perfect support is not
going to be a make or break resolution of SoftWood's future success (or
failure).
Word Perfect support is still desired by some few hundred users.
Weighing that against the thousands that use ProWrite 3.3 and KindWords
3.0 and, if you were the developer, you would probably have made the same
decision. It all comes down to choices. Some are good and some are bad.
One can never know how the market-place will react.
So far, the reaction has been overwhelmingly favorable. The local
users (I'm a member of a user group) feel the decision was a good one.
Also, since I started working at SoftWood (December 16th was my first
day), 2 (count 'em, two) users called and happened to mention that they
thought removing WordPerfect support was not in their favor. Stacked
against the dozens that have said, "It doesn't matter to me." or "Good
idea!", I'd say SoftWood made the right choice.
Now, on to Final Copy II:
Formatted text output: No plans that I am aware of.
HotLinks: I doubt it. I (not an official SoftWood stance) consider
HotLinks a waste of system resources (by the way, I developed this opinion
by asking quite a few developers about HotLinks). You can do the same
thing through decent ARexx ports and some nice scripting. ARexx also has
the advantage of being officially supported by Commodore.
Fonts (ability to use non-Nimbus Q fonts): That's a feature I'd love
to say and I've been telling them that, too! Here's hoping it gets in
there!!!
I hope you (and a lot of other users, as well) realize that we must
balance additional features against the program's physical size _AND_
<continued>
'bulkiness'. If a program feels too 'bulky', it means the features added
got a head of the programmers, which in turn means they didn't incorporate
it smoothly into the user interface. We could add tons of features and
make it horrible to use; or we could add a feature and make sure it is
done _right_, add another feature and make sure it is done _right_, etc.
Thanks for stating your opinions. I hope you enjoy Final Copy II if
you do buy it.
Ric Fischer
SoftWood Tech Support
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
(602) 431-9151
I won't be buying PGII either due to the removal of WP support. A shame.
PageStream's support of WP is great because you can edit and spell check in
WP, then import the document into a real DTP package. I had hoped to be
able to grammar check as well. Incidentally, WP 5.0 allows you to export
in 4.1 format so you can move files between work and home.
I don't post this to publicly berate Softwood for removing WP support. No
one can force a company to have a feature in their product. Just as no one
is forcing WP users to buy PGII. But a company also needs to make
decisions based on as much information as possible. WP users are just
providing valuable feedback to Softwood.
-Jerry Thompson
Ric:
With all due respect, that's got to be the stupidest position I've ever
heard a software publisher take with regard to a user's suggestion.
By your comment, 'dropping WordPerfect is a decision that has already been
made,' do you mean to say that once a decision is made at SoftWood, no
further discussion on the subject is allowed? That's a curious stance – I
don't think it would work in my company. It appears to me that the
software publishing industry is quite dynamic and company policy would be
MOSTLY dictated by end-user feedback.
And since when does your role as productivity software manufacturer extend
to 'encouraging' customers to abandon products that fulfill their needs and
have stood the test of time much longer than Final Copy?
The truth is, my company uses Amigas exclusively. Some of us prefer FCII
(I do – I no longer have WordPerfect installed at my desk), but many people
here rely HEAVILY on WP 4.1 and will forgo PG for the hassle of using it
with WP files.
Roger
Roger,
Perhaps you are correct that I made a presumptuous statement. It is
true that user's suggestions are considered when deciding upon future
enhancements.
However, since we have upgraded Proper Grammar to Proper Grammar II,
nearly every interested caller has said WordPerfect support doesn't
concern them. As a matter of fact, regarding removal of WordPerfect
support, I've heard more users make a praising comment than negative ones.
I, personally, am fairly certain that no future version of Proper
Grammar will contain WordPerfect support.
Also realize, as time goes on, "WordPerfect for the Amiga" market-
share is declining. I attribute this to the quality of the two leading
Amiga word processors, namely, SoftWood's Final Copy II and Hew Horizon's
ProWrite 3.3. Let's face it, a lot of us (including myself) were very
excited when WordPerfect opened their Amiga division. Most of that
original group was somewhat disappointed when it finally came out and
didn't look as good as we thought it could. However, most of us did use
it.
Now, in my humble opinion, there are better word processors available
for the Amiga. It's time for people to move up or they'll be left behind.
Compared to the incredible ease of use of today's Amiga word processors,
it's just not an efficient or productive decision to stay with an older
program. One more draw-back for WordPerfect users is the support. You
can call their 800 number and talk to one of the Macintosh representatives
that has a book on Amiga WordPerfect questions-and-answers. Include the
fact that WordPerfect may not be able to run on a future version of the
operating system, and you have a volatile situation handy.
It is _that_ kind of situation that explains my "not an efficient or
productive decision" statement. How much work would be done when a user
upgrades to (hypothetical) Workbench 6.2 and finds out that WordPerfect
doesn't work (gasp!). Now the user has to scramble to find a new word
<continued>
processor, learn it and get proficient with its use. It's too bad they
didn't take the time to switch back when the work-load was lighter.
I understand that this might be an unrealistic situation for some of
you, but it is a possibility for others. Some of you might be saying that
Final Copy II (or your favorite word processor) might break as well when
Workbench 6.2 comes out. I'll accept that. However, Final Copy II,
ProWrite 3.3, KindWords 3.0, etc. all have programmers that (to my
knowledge) are ready and able to produce an update that would work with
new versions of Workbench. Developers also get to beta-test the
operations systems before they are released so that these companies are
even likely to have a Workbench 6.2-compatible version by the time it
comes out. WordPerfect users no longer have such a luxury.
In closing, I'd like to add that I think the Amiga division of
WordPerfect would still be alive and thriving if they had done one of two
things:
1. Make the first version a unique Amiga-only version that could be
made to behave just like the other WordPerfect versions function keys,
macros, etc.), and still include the ability to fully read in normal
WordPerfect 4.x and 5.x files (from other platforms).
2. Put out the 4.1 version that a lot of us bought and then provide
an update which was similar to what is mentioned above. I believe this
would have made WordPerfect for the Amiga a success story.
In any case, do not consider the above statements as a company policy
statement. I was expressing personal opinion.
Ric Fischer
SoftWood Tech Support
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
(602) 431-9151