#How to order AMAPI 2.0
15 messages in this thread
I just got AMAPI 2.0 and inside is included the info on ordering the product in
America. OK, everyone grab their pencils….
For USA East Coast
N.E.S.I
25 Ford Road Wesport
CT 06880 USA
For the USA West Coast
View by View
1203 Union Street
San Francisco
CA 94109 USA
For the rest of the world
Yonowat S.A. France
49 cours Gambetta 33270
Floraic France
Tel: +33.16.56.86.91.08
…enjoy! It will be demoed at SIGGRAPH 95, for those interested.
BTW I comes with a dongle!!!!!!!!!
DaviD "Free antennae" GouID
<< I just got AMAPI 2.0 and inside is included the info on ordering the product
in America. OK, everyone grab their pencils…. >>
Could you post the features of this modeler, that is, merely featuring NURBS
doesn't mean much of anything. What's special about it ? What OS does it run
under ?
The signifigant things to look for in a NURBS modeler are:
How interactive, in real-time or near RT, are the tools/functions ?
Does it feature Trimmed Surfaces using Curves and Surfaces ? If so, are they
accurately translated on export ?
Can the surfaces be treated as solids, and std. Booleans performed….this
includes creating the Boolean-operated polygonal meshes properly for exporting
?
Can Control Points be "hardened", that is, have a "weight" assigned ? How's
this done ?
Does it feature freeform (rolling ball) curve & surface filleting ? If so, is
the fillet geometry welded into the a single mesh along with the 2 original
surfaces, upon translation for export ?
If it does feature filleting, can it be done interactively ? (as opposed to
having to enter a radius value numerically )
Does it feature variable surface Blending ?
Does it feature any tools/functions for maintaining tangency & continuity at
the blend points ?
Does it feature Bi-Rail (or N-Rail) surface construction ? Squared Surfaces ?
N-Sided Surfaces ? Swept Surfaces ? Skinning ?
Besides construction tools, does it have a good selection of Editing and/or
Deformation tools ?
Can IsoParms be easily extracted and dropped into the mesh under construction ?
Thanks,
BILL
Firstly I'd like to say that for me it is strong complement to 3DS because of
it's flexibility to create organic objects(we'll just have to wait for R5
before we have NURBS integrated, hint, hint <g>), and since this is the 3DS
forum I want to present it in that light so that people understand why I'm
commenting on the software. This I'm doing from a users point of view and
nothing more.
Whatsmore I've only got this software TODAY so I'm far from an expert but that
doesn't lessen the interest in the incredible tools that this package offers.
<<What's special about it ?>>
It includes many editing tools that give a great deal of control(precise
inputing of displacements etc) and yet allow a good "feedback" when pulling and
pushing the various object around to get what you want.
It has a different philosophy to 3DS when it comes to modelling. It is like the
2D Shaper, 3D Lofter and 3D Editor were combined into one viewport. You can
draw complex 2D Shapes at any angle on a plane and then use them to "loft"
objects or use them as profiles and contours. Once you've created an object you
can easily change the profiles to regenerate the object. This is all on the
screen at the same time. Instant feedback.
<<What OS does it run under ?>>
Apple Mac, Power Mac, IBM PC (DOS, Windows, Windows NT), Silicon Graphics, IBM
RS/6000, SUN Sparc Stations, Hewlett Packard 700 series.
<<How interactive, in real-time or near RT, are the tools/functions ?>>
Completely interactive, pull on a control point and the nurbs surface and other
vertices are pulled out instantly. An interesting feature is you can work in
two modes, NURBS or Polygon mode but many of the tools allow you to act on the
polygons like NURBS, like one pluck tool allows you to pull on a vertix and the
others follow gradually, It's like you are pulling on a bed sheet in the
middle.
<<Does it feature Trimmed Surfaces using Curves and Surfaces ?>>
Don't quite know what you mean by Trimmed Surface but it includes a Contour
feature that allows you to define four profiles for a surface and the
intermediate surface is generated. You can produce F1 car bodies and the like
with this tool.
<<If so, are they accurately translated on export ?>>
It exports to DXF, CAD Render, Ray Dream Designer, 3DGF, Caliray, Explore,
IGES, AMAPI 1.x, STL, RIB, HPGL, Adobe Illustrator.
<<Can the surfaces be treated as solids, and std. Booleans performed….this
includes creating the Boolean-operated polygonal meshes properly for exporting
?>>
Yes, you can use both polygons and NURBS in booleans, though once you boolean a
NURB it obviously becomes a polygon since it now has holes or additions pieces
added. With the smoothing tool you can add and reduce the face count easily.
<<Can Control Points be "hardened", that is, have a "weight" assigned ? How's
this done ?>>
You can select explicitly the points you want to move or add and subtract
points interactively using the + and – on the keypad.
<<Does it feature freeform (rolling ball) curve & surface filleting ?>>
The three and four profile curved surfaces should suit this need. It does
filleting and chamfering interactively as well as entering a precise value.
Also smoothing a "rough" jagged polygon is very easy to obtain a smooth
surface.
<<If so, is the fillet geometry welded into the a single mesh along with the 2
original surfaces, upon translation for export ?>>
This depends on the export format, but the resulting filleted polygon is a
single polygon.
<<Does it feature variable surface Blending ?>>
You can solder to two polygons and then smooth them over at the join.
<<Does it feature any tools/functions for maintaining tangency & continuity at
the blend points ?>>
Can't say I'll have to explore more.
<<Swept Surfaces ?>>
yeh, no problem sweep along bezier curves, straight lines, nurb curve just
about any form you can draw. Much like 3DS in it's ability to loft along any
path. The difference is that the path can be changed interactively and you can
immediately see the result, no need to jump between editors.
<<Skinning ?>>
NURBS and other tools give this functionality.
<<Besides construction tools, does it have a good selection of Editing and/or
Deformation tools ?>>
Yep, they are really good. You can perform twists and complex deforms by
specifying a spline that will be the centre of the resulting deformation.
The methods of selection aren't as powerful since you it is designed to produce
one or two good models rather than construct a city. It is after all just a
modeller.
<<Can IsoParms be easily extracted and dropped into the mesh under construction
?>>
I don't understand the question.
There are heaps of other features that makes it worth the money. I treat it
like a complex modelling add-on to 3DS that gives me organic modelling
capabilities. It has multiple undos which is great for organic modelling where
you experiment alot.
In any case you should be able to see a demo at one of the companies I
mentioned, if not it'll be demoed at SIGGRAPH 95.
DaviD "Pluck here, pluck there, instant bald NURBS chicken" GouID
Hi David,
Wow. Thanks a lot for the detailed answer.
<< This is all on the screen at the same time. Instant feedback. >>
So is there *only* a 1-viewport interface, or can you set-up a traditional
4-viewport scheme ?
How fast are screen redraws with a lot of geometry present ?
<< An interesting feature is you can work in two modes, NURBS or Polygon mode
but many of the tools allow you to act on the polygons like NURBS >>
Are you referring to the *Control Polygon* for the B-Spline Curve/Surface, or
to either Spline or Polygonal modeling ?
<< like one pluck tool allows you to pull on a vertix and the others follow
gradually, It's like you are pulling on a bed sheet in the middle. >>
Yes, that would be a Non-Linear Transformation/Deformation. Are there other
Deformations such as various types of bend operations which work in different
ways ?
<< Don't quite know what you mean by Trimmed Surface but it includes a Contour
feature that allows you to define four profiles for a surface and the
intermediate surface is generated. >>
One of the compelling reasons to use NURBS is to use Trimmed Surfaces. With TS,
you can trim away portions of a surface using an open/closed curve or another
surface as the "knife".
The Contour feature you describe is just a standard boundary Patch.
<< It exports to DXF >>
Have you tested the output to 3DS via DXF ? Can *any* model, no matter how it
was created, be accurately exported without problems to 3DS ?
<< Yes, you can use both polygons and NURBS in booleans, though once you
boolean a NURB it obviously becomes a polygon since it now has holes or
additions pieces added. >>
Well no, it doesn't have to become a polygon (except on export), as that is
what Trimmed Surfaces are….you can trim away portions of the surface (similar
to a Boolean Subtract), yet the spline surface retains it's spline
characteristics. However, a *surface* is implicity hollow by definition. Some
systems let you treat the surfaces as *solids*, and let you perform standard
Boolean operations **instead of using Trimmed Surfaces**. The difference being
that the interior surface or faces are created as necessary for the
*Boolean-operated* geometry, as dictated by considering it a *solid*.
So, are you saying that by *whatever method used*, the spline surface loses
it's spline characteristics inside Amapi when cut/drilled (becomes a polygonal
mesh) ? If not, when a cut/drilled surface is exported via DXF to 3DS, are
cuts/holes still present and accurately represented without problems once
inside *3DS* ?
<< You can select explicitly the points you want to move or add and subtract
points interactively using the + and – on the keypad. >>
No, I mean can you adjust the "weight" of a Control Point ? … which is
another compelling reason to use NURBS, but not always supported in some
systems I've seen. Usually, a good NURBS implementation will include the
ability to specify *Multiplicity* for a CV (multiple CV's at the same point) as
possible with "normal" B-Splines, as well as "Weight" which is not possible
with "normal" "non-rational" B-Splines. Both Multiplicity and Weight draw the
spline closer to the CV in the Control Lattice (Polygon), thus allowing more
control over the shape in addition to merely *defining* and *moving* control
points.
<< It does filleting and chamfering interactively as well as entering a precise
value. >>
It does filleting on *surfaces* interactively (or not), in addition to *curves*
?
<< This depends on the export format, but the resulting filleted polygon is a
single polygon>>
Again, with a *surface* (spline mesh), does the fillet operation create the
fillet between the 2 surfaces as a *seperate object*, or does it create a
single seamless mesh composed of Surface1, Surface 2, and the Fillet ? And if
so, does this export properly ?
<< You can solder to two polygons and then smooth them over at the join. >>
Yes, but can you blend (solder as you called it) both *curves* AND *surfaces*
together, and with control over the tangency and continuity at the blend point
? This is another compelling reason to use NURBS.
<< Yep, they are really good. You can perform twists and complex deforms by
specifying a spline that will be the centre of the resulting deformation. >>
Are you saying that a seperate spline curve can be used as a Deformation Axis
which the surface conforms to ?
<<Can IsoParms be easily extracted and dropped into the mesh under construction
?>>
<<< I don't understand the question. >>>
Well, for instance when you Skin a series of open curves into a surface….the
curves are constructed in the "U" direction, then the program creates "V" lines
which are orthogonal (perpendicular) to the defined "U" lines when it creates
the surface from the curves. This U&V matrix is the lines you see in wireframe
representing the surface. With a good system, you can freely extract or add
"Isoparms", which are the actual curves making up the U&V lines of the mesh.
Thanks SO MUCH for your time. I'm always interested in new PC modeling systems
such as this.
Regards,
BILL
<<So is there *only* a 1-viewport interface, or can you set-up a traditional
4-viewport scheme ?>>
You have one single viewport but you can change this view quickly using the
numeric keypad to swap to front, left, right, etc.
<<How fast are screen redraws with a lot of geometry present ?>>
I must say that they're not as fast as 3DS, but then again it is running under
windows. I'm awaiting a maintenance release version in a day or two supposedly
a lot of bugs were fixed and the rendering is faster. BTW, I forgot to mention
it does a quick phong shading of the model, but it currently isn't very fast.
<<Are you referring to the *Control Polygon* for the B-Spline Curve/Surface, or
to either Spline or Polygonal modeling ?>>
When working with NURBS you'll be pulling on the control points, but there is a
tool that allows you to pull on the actual vertices of polygons and they
stretch which gives a similar feel and response to using the NURBS control
points.
<<Are there other Deformations such as various types of bend operations which
work in different ways ?>>
The one I mentioned where you draw a spline and the object is bent to follow
the spline. As an honest newbie to the program I can't add much more without
working more with it.
<<One of the compelling reasons to use NURBS is to use Trimmed Surfaces. With
TS, you can trim away portions of a surface using an open/closed curve or
another surface as the "knife". >>
I think that you can do this using the boolean feature. Once you've create
another surface you can use it as a boolean on another.
<<The Contour feature you describe is just a standard boundary Patch.>>
Yeh, standard coons patch as far as I can guess.
<<Have you tested the output to 3DS via DXF ? Can *any* model, no matter how it
was created, be accurately exported without problems to 3DS ?>>
Other people I know have and use it comfortably like that for producing figures
for games. I personally haven't tried yet.
<<Well no, it doesn't have to become a polygon (except on export), as that is
what Trimmed Surfaces are….>>
Such CSG facilities aren't included in the modeller but you can get by with the
boolean features it provides.
<<No, I mean can you adjust the "weight" of a Control Point ?>>
I'm not sure. Sounds great though.
<<It does filleting on *surfaces* interactively (or not), in addition to
*curves* ?>>
You can take any form and chamfer or fillet it's edges.
<<Are you saying that a seperate spline curve can be used as a Deformation Axis
which the surface conforms to ?>>
Yep.
Unfortunately I couldn't answer all your questions because I'm not well enough
educated with the package. Ask me again in a couple of months when I get some
more free time to experiment.
DaviD "Mummy, when do I get to go outside and play?" GouID
Hi David,
Thanks so much again, for the many answers you've given me. I guess I'll have
to take a look at it.
Regards,
BILL
I took another quick peak in the manual and found that you can create IsoParams
but it doesn't refer to them as such instead it allows you to extract a
curve(polyline) from a NURBS or Polygon object. This curve can then be used for
profiles in sweeps, extrudes, etc. The ability to select several vertices on a
polygon and then covert this into a curve is fantastic, since this curve can be
used in so many different ways. You can also extract surfaces instead of curves
from both NURBS and Polygons.
I also mentioned a patch contour feature but explained it wrongly. It isn't a
patch but instead a true hull surface with section, profile and contour lines.
The skin feature is included but I overlooked it. It has a nice feature that
the number of points in each cross section CAN be different. So you can skin
from using any number of cross sections with any number of points.
These are just a few precisions I could add.
I just heard the integration of AMAPI and 3DS is going to be REAL tight, I
can't say anymore, see the demo at SIGGRAPH.
DaviD "Living in a stasis bubble" GouID
Hey, thanks a lot for the additional information David. It sounds a little
better each time I hear about it. I've got a demo coming, sometime soon. Yes,
if a NURBS implementation is a good one, there are a number of powerful design
tools. I've never seen a really good one on the PC platform before, though.
Being able to add, delete & extract isoparms or CV's without changing the shape
of the surface, due to the *N*on-*U*niform (NUrbs) knot interval capabilities,
is quite powerful. This also allows building surfaces from cross-sections
consisting of arbitrary CV counts, without changing the shape of the surface as
one would visualize it from the CS's. Thanks again.
Regards,
BILL
Bill,
I've been following your very informative, though confusing for the
uninitiated, conversation. BTW, thanx for all your info last time. I've been
trying to do a little research here and on the Web, but for the most part, it
seems like I would have to go to SGI for any kind of NURBS modellers. Right
now we have Pentium PC's, and I don't know if we're going to get anything
different anytime soon. What would be your recommendation for what we should
do to get NURBS going?
Also, is there anything that will take our 3DS/DXF models and convert them to a
NURBS format?
Kerry
Hi Kerry,
I'm really sorry for the delay. I've been working lately, barely able to keep
up here, and then I got sick for a week.
<< What would be your recommendation for what we should do to get NURBS going?
>>
I wouldn't jump to SGI just to work with NURBS alone. Just hang on for about 6
months, and I believe you'll have several decent choices on the PC platform.
<< Also, is there anything that will take our 3DS/DXF models and convert them
to a NURBS format? >>
I don't think so, as that's a very tall order….difficult to impossible.
If I can be of further assistance, please E-Mail me, as I am more likely to
catch the message there, until I finish this project I'm working on (2-4 more
weeks).
Regards,
BILL
Hi Bill,
Me and my NURBS questions again! 🙂
Anyway, the reason I'm trying to find out about converting our mesh files to a
NURBS format is that one of our clients seems to be saying they have a
simulator that "needs" NURBS. I don't know what that is about, but every
simulator that I've seen literature on talks about rendering so many *polygons*
per second. Is there really a so-called NURBS format out there? Or is it just
a tool for creating and editing 3D objects, which will be output in a polygon
format, and these clients are bozos?
Kerry
Im going to copy those questions down and use them to harrass anyone
purporting to sell modeling software (G)
After reading the conversation you are having with David on AMAPI, I reread
excerpts.txt on R3d with your questions in mind. Im not totally conversant
(understatment ) with all the terms you use but my impression is that Trimming
is not available in R3d for export to DXF. On blending surfaces I am unclear on
whether the resulting surface can be smoothed.
I will be checking out the 3dsr5 modeling features at siggraph then deciding
whether I need another modeler. If so I will be hanging around the booth where
they will show AMAPI (#2614) and R3d, among others, shopping for a modeler.
Any insights you could provide on how R3d shapes up to your question list would
be helpful. I also look foward to Davids answer to your follow up. This is
really valuable stuff considering the unrevealing brochures these companies put
out.
Thanks
Ed
<< Im going to copy those questions down and use them to harrass anyone
purporting to sell modeling software (G) >>
<GGG>
<< Im not totally conversant (understatment ) with all the terms you use but my
impression is that Trimming is not available in R3d for export to DXF. >>
It's really a bit unusual that the current R3D release *does* feature an
implementation of Trimmed Surfaces, since the current release uses Cubic
Uniform Non-Rational B-Splines instead of NURBS (Non-Uniform Rational
B-Splines). (The next version of R3D will feature a nice NURBS implementation).
However, when the geometry is converted via DXF, any trimmed surface will
export in it's un-trimmed state. But, as a sort-of work-around, in many cases
you can export the developed surface and then the capped trim curves as planar
polygons. Then, with some luck <g>, you can re-create the polygonal version of
the trimmed surface using 3DS's Boolean Subtract operation, with the extruded
or lofted trim polygons.
<< Any insights you could provide on how R3d shapes up to your question list
would be helpful.
Well, as I mentioned, R3D currently doesn't use NURBS, and my question list was
pretty specific to NURBS. But, R3D does feature an extremely thorough
implementation of "normal" B-Splines, as rarely seen elsewhere. IMO, "normal"
B-Splines well-implemented with quality export to 3DS, is much more valuable
than most any NURBS system which doesn't feature most *any one* of the features
I outlined….especially if the connection with 3DS is not a strong one.
Regards,
BILL
<<I will be checking out the 3dsr5 modeling features at siggraph then deciding
whether I need another modeler. If so I will be hanging around the booth where
they will show AMAPI (#2614) and R3d, among others, shopping for a modeler.>>
Thanks exactly what I think. If you don't need a modeller like this right now,
I'd hold off until after we can get a squizz at R5 and then make a decision.
I'd really prefer that these tools be tightly integrated into 3DS rather than
use another package, EVEN if the other package is good.
DaviD "Hold yee horses!" GouID