CompuServe Thread

#Render Cubes

11 messages in this thread
#174804From: Wayne LeongJun 11, 1995 1:35 PM
Jonas, I am comparing the capabilities of 3D Studio 4 with that of a traditional hand renderer and photography. The exercise involves rendering 4 cubes. In the 3D Editor construct 4 cubes. Place 3 cubes on a base adjacent to each other to form a corner or right angle. Place the 4th cube above the corner cube to form a triad of cubes. Place a camera at 45 degrees to the cubes so that the picture plane is 45 degrees to the cubes. Only 3 cubes will be visible. Place a spot light so that the lighting is parallel to the picture plane. The exercise is to change the material of each cube and compare the rendered image to a similar photograph and hand rendering. With all the cubes being opaque the tone of the shading and shadows are comparable to both hand rendering and photography. With ray tracing shadows, 3D Studio does not start the shadow at the corners of the cubes. Instead there is a little offset which implies that the cubes are not all touching but somehow offset from each other. I can live with this problem but I would like to figure out how to cast the shadows correctly so that the shadows originate from the corners. The real problem I am having is with assigning a reflective material to the cubes using the automatic reflection mapping. The reflective cubes to not show the reflection of any of the adjacent cubes. Instead the cubes appear to be opaque. When I use the Render/Setup/Make.CUB command it makes all the six reflection maps and they seem to be correct. These reflection maps never appear on the cube with the reflective material. I'll try and upload the project file so that you can render it. I'll call it WAYCUBE.PRJ. I would appreciate your help in this exercise or pass it on to someone who would be interested in helping. It is important to me to make sure that 3DS 4 can render this simple project correctly. If it can't do this I would question what it does in more complex scenes. I need to show this work to the established Architectural rendering community to prove 3DS credibility. Thank you, Wayne
#174813From: Christophe Van OyenJun 11, 1995 2:53 PM
>>The real problem I am having is with assigning a reflective material to the cubes using the automatic reflection mapping. The reflective cubes to not show the reflection of any of the adjacent cubes. Instead the cubes appear to be opaque. When I use the Render/Setup/Make.CUB command it makes all the six reflection maps and they seem to be correct. These reflection maps never appear on the cube with the reflective material.>> I guess the material you use is set wrongly for reflection, I have no manuals near me but my experience is that when you see no reflections using automatic reflection some of the material settings for that material is wrong. Check those settings, check all the sliderbars. I have done it without a problem. >> I need to show this work to the established Architectural rendering community to prove 3DS credibility.>> As an architect mysself I think 3DS has long earned its usability for architectural visualisation. Concerning the shading offset, I have no clue and never had a problem with that as to my knowledge. Could be influenced by some settings for raytracing that you can change in the 3DS.set file. I forgot which one, but one certainly is important in that field. Make sure you first check all the available settings for raytracing in the manuals. Christophe Van Oyen Architect
#174918From: Wayne LeongJun 12, 1995 10:49 AM
Christophe, Thanks for the reply. I was able to correct the ray tracing shadow offset by adjusting the RENDER/SETUP/SHADOW/RAY TRACE BIAS to .05. The default was 1. I wonder if this has any affect on rendering time. I'm not successful in making the cubes reflective. The Material editor settings are as follows: Ambient = middle grey Diffuse = middle grey Shading = metal Shininess = 90 Shin. Strength = 100 All other property controls set to 0 Mapping Assignment Reflection = 100 Map = Automatic A With this setting the sphere will render in the material editor. When changing the sample to cube and rendering sample, the cube always apprears opaque in the material editor. This opacity is what I get when returning to the 3D editor and rendering the view. I uploaded the project file called WAYCUBE.PRJ if you are interested in playing around with the cubes. It is a classic excercise in architectural rendering. I appreciate any help. Thanks Wayne Leong, Architect
#174971From: Christophe Van OyenJun 12, 1995 2:05 PM
I will try out your settings, but I will have to wait until it is available in the libraries. However I will check out what you say, maybe one thing: Did you assign the Automatic reflections to the object, because if so It will not work, you have to assign it to the faces, so do a SELECT FACES and then assign the Material to the selected Faces. Christophe Van Oyen, Architect, Belgium
#174993From: Wayne LeongJun 12, 1995 4:20 PM
Christophe, I tried your suggestion by assigning the material to selected faces. I still get an opaque cube. I will uploand the file WAYCUBE.PRJ to you. I would appreciate it if you could make it work. This excercise comes from Paul Stevenson Oles, AIA book "Architectural Illustration". He is a well know Architectural Illustrator and does work for I. M. Pei and friends. He is currently working on a book with M.I.T. Dean of Architecture William Mitchell, entitled "Visualization, Tradition + Technology". I'm comparing how rendering programs like 3D studio create scenes in comparison to the rules the Steve Oles have established. His hand renderings are done with wax pencils and are close to photorealistic. It is what I call "right brain art". I did not realize that you are located in Belgium. I am located in St. Helena, California in the heart of the Napa Valley wine country about 60 miles north of San Francisco. I'm always amazed that I live so close to AutoDesk and the Yost Group in S.F. yet get responses from clear across the globe. Thanks again for your help. This simple problem is driving me crazy. Wayne Leong, AIA Architect St. Helena, CA
#175053From: ALAN IGLESIASJun 12, 1995 11:05 PM
Wayne, I've been reading this thread and feel that there are some basic mis-understandings about the way reflection maps work in 3DS. As it is a scan-line renderer, effects like reflections (or more specifically, the way you want your reflective surfaces to appear to the viewer) can be quite confusing as there are multiple approaches for this in 3DS. As this is something I've beat on quite a bit in the last few years, I'd be glad to help you out, but feel a real-time conversation would be much more effcient than trying to explain everything on-line. So if you'd like, I'll Email you my phone number, and I'll do my best to help you out. In the mean-time, re-do the tutorials concerning reflection maps, paying special attention to the different kinds and their various applications (this just might fix you up alone!). Let me know… -Alan
#175123From: Wayne LeongJun 13, 1995 9:51 AM
Alan, I finally did get the cube to render with reflective surfaces thanks to all the help I got. The problem I had was my concept of how 3D studio should work rather than how it really works. I would be glad to talk to you. Wayne
#175414From: ALAN IGLESIASJun 14, 1995 7:00 PM
See your Email, Wayne. -Alan
#174824From: Anne BrownJun 11, 1995 4:45 PM
Wayne – When you upload your WAYCUBE.PRJ file, do you want it left in the public libraries for anyone to take a look? or did you mean the file for Jonas only.?? Much better to have it public if the project file will render – you will get more input that way. Let me know. Anne
#174900From: Wayne LeongJun 12, 1995 9:27 AM
Anne, The project file WAYCUBE.PRJ can be made available for the public. Thanks, Wayne
#174861From: Jack DeathJun 12, 1995 12:10 AM
Concerning the reflections C. Van Oyen already answered that one, when it comes to the shadows, that might just be your own personal bias… <bg> Adjust the BIAS in the shadow controls and you can have the shadow move further or closer from/to the object… Must be a "page 7-163 not read error" <BG> Jack