#Order of Operations
32 messages in this thread
Jim, there's something that's bothering me about the way WHAP! getWN=Yd
mesges.
When it does the RM, and then does the RTN, you get the messages to you 2
times. Plus, if you reply to a message that's in the RM at the very beginning,
it isn't marked as "replied" when the message to you comes up a second time.
Now, the problem is, what if someone sends you a message that's in a section
that you haven't marked. Well, the RM takes care of that. Why not do the RM
-after- the RTN instead of before? I would -greatly- prefer that.
Another thing is that when WRITING messages offline for WHAP to upload, it
will do an RTN after writing the messages. The problem is that your messages
will show up even if there are no others, and WHAP will say that you've got new
messages to read (and they're just yours!) I find that a bit annoying too.
The problem is, what if someone writes a message and saves it during a WHAP
upload – it could be missed if the current method were changed. I dunno.
Maybe you have some thoughts?
Henry,
I had that explained to me while beta-ing. The RM will get you ANY marked
messages for you, even if it's in a subtopic you don't have set in your forum
options. The RTN just gets them from your set topics.
The 'upload and get only your own' is hard to get around, unless you just
Perform Actions. Whap! is sent for messages, and, BY GOD!, it's gonna get
messages! Even if the only ones there are ones left by you.
The thing I wanted was a method to clear outstanding actions without going
through popping a CLI and deleting the appropriate files. Maybe in future
versions…speaking of which, if JCS is peeking in, how about another gadget in
the status window, named More Delay? Be a little harder than just adding
additional wait time, but might be nice for later revisions.
Doug
OK, I'll accept the RM, but it would be great if it did RM -after- RTN. That
sounds a little odd at first – "unnatural" or something, but I'd prefer it.
Maybe it could be a toggle.
Ugh … yes, everytime I do a QSN and then mark the messages, I end up
downloading many messages that I've already read. I don't believe that was
happening with TapCIS when I was running it on my portable. Shouldn't messages
already read be marked as such and not included on future downloads?
Paul
I would think so – I wonder what Jim has to say.
Henry,
Yes, it does a RM first then an RTN. Since the marked message is sent
twice the editor considers it 2 messages. The editor has no concept of message
numbers. All it's looking for is a #: sequence (well, some other stuff too,
but that's not germane). If you reply to the one that came from the RM, the
one that came from the RTN will not have the replied flag set because it is not
the same instance of the message.
By doing an RM after the RTN would make no real difference. The only
thing that would happen is that you'd get the duplicated messages at the end of
your file instead of at the beginning. Personally, I'd rather read my marked
messages up front.
After composing messages offline, if all you want to do is send them but
get no new messages, click on Perform Actions instead of Get New Messages.
Perform Actions does just that, performs any impending actions on selected
forums. It does not get messages.
Now, if you click on Get New Messages, that will perform any impending
actions on selected forums AND get new messages. It will first send your
messages then do an RTN. By doing the RTN first then sending the messages
gains you nothing. Instead of getting messages from you THIS time, you will
get them the next time. Regardless, you WILL get them. If you don't want to
receive messages you left, that's settable on a forum by forum basis. Type OP
at the main forum prompt and turn off having messages you left being displayed
(to you).
Best,
-jcs-
Well, I do think that doing an RM after the RTN would be superior. Correct me
if I'm wrong (but it rarely happens. 🙂 )
Say there are 5 messages left to me.
During the RTN they would be picked up and read. If the RM happened later,
then only those in the wrong subtopics would be picked up. Right?
To me that would be greatly preferable, because I wouldn't be reading the
same message twice, and the "replied" flag would be accurate.
Unfortunately they would still ALL appear. The RM function is
independant and lists any an all messages "marked" to your PNN irreguardless of
the RTN function. When you enter the forum the message that there is X number
of messages "marked" to you is present. Even in a manual mode if you do a RTN
and do not reset your HI Counter or exit the SIG in some manner using the RM
command will still bring up the "marked" messages.
+BR+ Canton, Ohio
Aw, poo on that!
Henry,
In the version that was writen for the M100 (by the guy who write TAPCI$) once
you picked up a marked message you never saw it again. It was nice. I seems
to be getting to see alot of messages twice, but I'm doing a QSN not an RTN.
…Dave
Henry,
Maybe doing an RM after the RTN is preferrable and if you guys want that,
it'll be changed. But, your premise is incorrect.
A RTN picking up a marked message will not unmark it, so a RM afterwards
will still (again) get the marked messages. Marked messages remain marked even
if you've read them. Try a test online sometime. Assuming you have marked
messages waiting, do an RM. After you've read them, do another RM. You get
them again. The only time they are cleared is if you leave the 'forum'
program. If you go to CO, Libs, exit the forum, whatever, and reenter the
messages area, then the marked messages will be cleared.
Best,
-jcs-
Jim,
I'm not too found of duplicate messages either. I don't care if RM comes
before RTN, but I wish there were a way for Whap! to screen out the second
occurence, throw a flag or something if a message number has appeared, and
bypass it if it comes up again…
Lee
Lee,
That could be done from the View! side, but not from Whap! itself.
Meaning, while reading the messages you won't see the repeat but it will be in
your .msg file. That ok?
Best,
-jcs-
I vote for marked messages FIRST. I want to see them as soon as possible, to
bring them to my attention.
I also vote for having them appear twice. Why? What if someone messages you
and you can't noodle out what he's talking about out of context? That's
happened to me several times, and I just defer replying to that message until
it comes up again later, in the thread context later in the session. THEN I can
see what the fuss is about, and write a (sometimes) sensible reply.
Rick
Rick,
So, you are saying you want it to remain as is?
How about this one. Add a RM gadget to the forum configuration screen.
Whap! would only send an explicit RM if this gadget is activated. If you have
RM and RTN activated the outcome would be like it is now. If RM is NOT
selected and RTN is, you won't get doubled messages but will pick up your
marked messages in thread order. You could also just activate RM but not RTN
or QSN and the program would do nothing but RM (for that forum) and exit? That
would probably make everyone happy.
The only disadvantage to this that I see is that if you don't have RM
activated you will not get messages marked for you that are in sections that
you don't have access to, such as a sysop might leave in your section 0.
Best,
-jcs-
Yes, given the choices I had seen to that point, I was saying I wanted it to
remain as it is. I was one of the proponents of adding the RM feature because
of missed messages, was really happy that you put it in, and wasn't bothered by
the doubled messages. Just wanted you to know that there are users out here
that really do like it the way that it is.
Now, given that: if you're talking making MAJOR changes, I love the concept of
the selectable RM/RTN/QSN modes, and I do think that would make _most_ of the
users happy. Who it won't appease are those who want to do an RM to be sure to
get all their messages along with an RTN for all the others, yet still don't
want to see any messages twice. THEY aren't going to be happy until you teach
View! to skip messages which it's already displayed.
Rick
Thought: Consider entering a forum once for each mode selected. If the user
had RM & (RTN | QSN) set, this could result in the following sequence: GO
AMIGAT – RTN – GO AMIGAT – RM. This would read all the messages you could get
at, update your high message pointer, clear the marks on everything you had
read, then pick up the marked messages that you'd missed. Of course those
marked messages would still show up in the next Whap! run, and it would result
in a bit more time online, and it would put the RMs last (of which I'm not
fond), but it would be a simple hack that would eliminate most of the
complaint. Submitted primarily as a thought-jogger. 8)
Jim,
I also favor leaving it as it is, but your solution here seems to cover all
bases.
…Dave
I dunno about that. What I'd like is sort of what Rick says – doing an RTN
then doing a GO FORUM again, then doing an RM to pick up any missed. if someone
would so desire.
Jim,
Personally, I'm happy with the messages the way Whap! currently works, but
your solution seems like a good "make almost everyone happy" one. One
additionaly bell (or is it a whistle?) would be for View! to 'beep' when
displaying a "marked" message, so that if it is in the midst of the RTN
sequence, it'll stand out a bit more. View! is already aware of this fact,
since this also triggers the enabling of the 'Delete' gadget, so an additional
call to DisplayBeep() could be implemented fairly painlessly, I think.
Just a thought….Bob
Ugh! One DisplayBeep() at the end is bad enough! Save me from other people's
sounds or flashing screen! <grin>
I like that idea (the call to DisplayBeep()).
That would be good Jim! I'd vote for the RM part not to duplicate, and
leaving the RTN messages there.
Jim,
That would be very nice, yes.
Thanks,
Lee
Jim, why not consider giving Whap! the option to specify the "Skip Messages
From You" option for those who wish it?
I believe the 4D(36) version of this command is "OP;SKIP ON" or similar.
Geo
There are many times that I see a message to me, and I do NOT remember what I'd
said (typed) that prompted the message. I'm thankful that I can then find my
original in the RTN area and at least reply intelligently (well mostly
intelligently).
Vic,
That's a thought. There have been a couple of times when I've appended an
additional reply to a message when I get to it again at RTN. On a more heavily
trafficked forum (like this one!) that's helpful. But on the slower forums, or
forums where I don't have so many subtopics selected, I don't need to see the
message repeat itself almost immediately. Maybe a toggle would be helpful that
can be flipped in individual forums. Or maybe it's simply not enough of an
irritation to ask Jim to bother. I haven't made up my mind yet.
Lee
Lee,
I believe there is something in the Forum itself, in OPtions. You can switch
off the showing of messages from yourself there. It's worth trying.
(Personally, I LIKE seeing my stuff up in lights. 8)
Doug
I'll check out the option of turning them off to see how this works with Whap!
Thanks,
Lee
Henry,
If you are going to read new messages, it oesn't matter if you read
the messages you just left today, or read them the next time you log on.
Let's say your high message pointer is 100, and messages up to 110
exist in the Forum. You log on and leave messages 111 thru 115 and then do a
read new. You'll get messages 100 thru 115.
Your method…you log on, read new and get messages from 100 thru 110
and then post messages 111 thru 115 and log off. Next time you log on, your
first messages in the REad New will be #'s 111 thru 115…the messages you had
left last time.
So it's not a matter IF you get them, it is only a matter or WHEN you
get the messages you have left.
Don
Don, it matters if you put up a LOT of messages. You then get a LOT of
replies. If you pick up the messages you left NEXT time, there is a chance
that they will be 'attached' to the replies. If you pick them up NOW, there is
zero (0) chance that they will be.
Vic,
That's true. Hadn't thought of it that way…but you are absolutely
correct.
Don