CompuServe Thread

#CBM Red Ink

23 messages in this thread
#57958From: Ethan SolomitaJul 19, 1989 11:43 PM
So far, the best thing about Commodore is that its low price, so HP and "high prices" would change everything! — Ethan
#57982From: John Sobernheim(TCR)Jul 20, 1989 12:02 AM
Ethan, "the best thing about Commodore is that its (SIC) low price,…" Hmmm, I kinda like the multi-tasking environment myself. -John
#58072From: Ethan SolomitaJul 20, 1989 9:01 PM
Commodore doesn't multitask, the Amiga does. The best thing about COMMODORE is the low price they charge for the system (our very own Amiga) whose best feature is multitasking. Ahem… 8^> — Ethan
#58456From: John Sobernheim(TCR)Jul 23, 1989 3:19 PM
Ethan, Well, if you put it that way then I pretty much agree. My favorite things about Commodore (not the Amiga) are that they support their dealers, who can then turn and support their customers. And, they are _committed_ to the personal computer market. Priced to make power affordable. -John
#59077From: Dean CooperJul 27, 1989 1:57 AM
I'm a dealer, here's the kind of support I get sometimes… I am informed about special promotions about a week before they're over… My rep. (No. California) goes on vacation for a week or two, and nobody answers his phone messages. It makes it kind of hard to order when you can't get ahold of anyone. There's only one guy taking orders, and he's out half the time when he's not on vacation, and his "Service" can't ever take a canned order.. Sure, they do O.K. sometimes, but they've never been that great to dealers.
#59120From: Don Curtis/SYSOPJul 27, 1989 3:14 PM
Dean, Your rep has a boss…why not complain to them. The rep is obviously not doing a proper job, that should either be fixed…or he(she) should be replaced. If nothing else, why not give Commodore a call directly? Don
#59243From: Dean CooperJul 28, 1989 3:53 AM
I've currently got complaints in the works… I just wanted to pass the word that it's not like it was painted in the previous message. Here's another example… Commodore put in a new main computer, so all parts, and equipment orders were put on hold, for almost 2 weeks… A computer company should at least be able to run in parallel, shouldn't they? Ami's my favorite computer, but the fact remains, if CBM don't get off their tails and develop newer, faster, and more capable systems, the Amiga will be remembered as an "Also Ran" in the pages of computer history. Many applications are out there, but CBM has to show the developers of VAR applications and high level vertical markets some reason to "Take a chance, and not go with IBM or MAC"….
#59277From: Ethan SolomitaJul 28, 1989 3:01 PM
The company in the IBM world I would most like to see come to the Amiga is probably Fox Software (although Lotus is a close second). They make the best database system for standalone computers (non-network). It is even faster than clipper according to most reports. They made a Mac version which is supposed to very good and the programmers claimed that they loved the Mac environment. If they loved what they saw in the Mac, how about the Amiga?? Also, the have a program called FoxGraph, which is an EXCELLENT 3-d graphing program, giving almost complete flexibility. They seem to be innovation leaders in the MS-DOS world and would probably sell very well in the Amiga market as we seem to be missing a powerful high-end database system. — Ethan
#59423From: Karim MiteffJul 29, 1989 10:00 PM
Do you know that Fox Software is full of Amiga nuts? Most of there software dev developers have Amigas. In fact, two AmiExpos ago, their Sales Director went to a CBM representative an asked him, informally, on whether or not Fox should consider the Amiga asa development platform. Well, he was treated quite badly and just closed the book on that. I personally gave him a call after Gail Wellington said he would be happy to take his call on the subject. This was three months ago, and it is now between the President of Fox and Ms. Wellington. I don't think that he is too thrilled with the Amiga at this point and Commodore probably isn't pushing to hard, I guess it is because we have Microfiche Filer. Who needs FoxBase, right? By the way, Fix sells about 5000 copies of FoxBase a month. Let's hope that Fox ports the Mac version of their program to the Amiga. As long as CBM drags their feet on marketing, continued development of Amiga hardware, and system enhancements, it'll be a tough bet.
#59153From: Betty Clay/SYSOPJul 27, 1989 6:38 PM
Dean, I suggest that you document these problems with your sales rep. and get Commodore working on them. There is a regional manager who is supposed to oversee the work of that rep – and some one at Commodore in West Chester would be overseeing the regional rep. You DO have recourse. Betty
#59244From: Dean CooperJul 28, 1989 3:54 AM
See the message to Don, I'm working on it… But, it shouldn't happen in the first place…
#59177From: John Sobernheim(TCR)Jul 27, 1989 9:09 PM
Dean, Well, don't call him today, tomorrow or yesterday… he's off … in West Chester getting briefed on the fall promotions! <grin> Dean, there have been plenty of times that I've called with … questions/orders and he hasn't been around, but he is normally out of town helping out a dealer or something, not on vacations? BTW, is your rep. Bob Kooyman? That's who I'm talking about. Normally I get a call back in a day or so, and with the kind of shipping delays we face, a day or so 'ain't no bid deal. 🙂 Anyway, I would let someone know that you are frustrated with the support he's giving you, hopefully that someone can help fix the problem. -John
#59245From: Dean CooperJul 28, 1989 3:57 AM
My rep is Tom Stearns. I know he's a busy guy, so CBM should give him some help. I'm working on the problems, and don't really see them as "Major" problems, but why not have a more centralized and organized system… What products have you had problems getting… Lately it's Monitors with me..
#59182From: John Sobernheim(TCR)Jul 27, 1989 9:21 PM
Dean, One more thing, are you getting the 'Marketing Bulletins'? I'm getting one every couple of weeks or so, and they do well in keeping me up on promo's, CO-Op, etc. -John
#59246From: Dean CooperJul 28, 1989 3:59 AM
Yes, I'm getting the bulletins, but they don't always include the information that we "Don't want to hear"… IE: Product shortages, etc.
#58113From: Black Belt SystemsJul 21, 1989 12:32 AM
Low price? Huh? Where? THe electronics in the AMiga 500 should have it at a price point some around $250.00, retail. The 2000 should be _maybe_ as high as $800.00, _only_ because of the price of the dram in it. –BEn-
#58161From: RICH MEDVEDJul 21, 1989 2:35 PM
Some people sure live in a dream world. Even at the prices CBM charges, their profit is MUCH lower than any of the major IBM clone makers or Apple. As a dealer, I can tell you that the retail profit is so low that we no longer consider ourselves as Amiga dealers that have a huge (over 850 titles) s/w selection. Our dealership is now a s/w retailer that will get (note: NOT STOCK) an Amiga. Why? The profit margin sucks! Within the past 60 days, one dealer folded and another closed their retail front and switched to mail order only. At least two others are in serious trouble. No, CBM prices are VERY fair. They may lower the 500 to buy more market penetration, but nothing is wrong with the present price structure. The problem lies with their marketing approach – it's too amateurish, simplistic, and unfocused. They also need to support their dealer network by eliminating mail order discount houses as did Apple, and support a more realistic dealer profit margin. I don't know of any dealer that is going to sell, for long, a $1000 item at 10% profit, and then provide the kind of customer support that is needed. Yet that is exactly what is being forced on the Amiga dealers. Looking back on the first paragraph, of course the "we" is our dealership – Computer Quest in Seattle. I don't pretend to speak for anyone else.
#58956From: Gabe J. FederJul 26, 1989 10:33 AM
Ben, I'm sorry to say this, but A) You are not being realistic about the pricing of either machine and B) you are being demogogic about the value of the 2000 re dram prices. Be serious, do you REALLY think the 2000 should sell for $800. Maybe $999 would be a better price now, in view of the 2500 and the impending new announcements of the 2630 board, the *nix system, 1.4 and the ECS. Given the newer technology, the pricing should be realigned when they come out. I.e. an Amiga 3000 (with the 2630) should perhaps sell for around $2500-2800 base price, (initially, to recoup R&D costs — later to drop to the $2300 level), thus bringing the 2500 down to around $1999 and the 2000 to 999, the 500 might then be priced (base, w/o monitor) at around $300-$400. Of course, this is nothing but the broadest speculation on my part, since A) the hardware and software have not even been released yet, and B) How the heck could *I* (or you) know about the cost of materials + R&D + other expenses (whatever they may be)? –Gabe <putting on the asbestos clothing…>
#59063From: Ethan SolomitaJul 26, 1989 11:34 PM
Just one thing regarding you're pricing schedule: you say a 3000 with the 2630. Hopefully, a 68030 will be integrated on the motherboard and won't need a separate card! — Ethan
#59079From: Khalid AldoseriJul 27, 1989 6:20 AM
Ethan, hmm.. then would that mean that even chip mem would run at the speed the 68030 is running it? If so, then it would be fast! Khalid.
#59096From: John DraperJul 27, 1989 10:42 AM
Khalid, It would indeed. Problem is that it need not be that way. The 68030, like the 68020 can talk to slower ram/devices, so the CHIP mem could be running slower than the other mem and the '030, and it would still work. A 32 bit bus, if it included the CHIP bus and the 32 bit-wide custom chips to handle it would be a screamer though, even running at the same speed they are now. -larry
#59151From: Khalid AldoseriJul 27, 1989 6:37 PM
Larry, yeah.. and we keep on wishing and dreaming. (grin) Khalid.
#59194From: Ethan SolomitaJul 27, 1989 10:24 PM
Well, I don't think such a view of the 3000 is wishing. There are currently the 500, 2000, 2000HD and 2500. Obviously, the 3000, being a different number even, is going to be well above the 2500 otherwise they'd call it the 2500cx or something. Of course, we'll pay for the quality. — Ethan