#Amiga 4000 Pwr.Supply?
17 messages in this thread
Recently we purchased a new Amiga 4000/040. Having considerable problems in
the transfer of data – and un-archiving it – from the floppy to the hard disk.
In fact, so far we have been unable to load our Toaster 3.0 program from the 40
odd floppies on to the hard disk. As we have clients coming in for video post
production next week…. we are nearly out of our minds with worry and grief!
Have had the suggestion that the power supply for the 4000 is extremely poor –
delivering low voltages which cause the drives – especially the hard drive – to
give considerable trouble. We measured voltages with accurate instruments.
The nominal 5 volts DC. was around 4.95 volts. The 12 volt supply delivers
around 11.64 volts DC. This falls to 11.63 when there is hard disk activity.
Be interested to know if others have suffered – as we are doing right now –
also are there better power supplies which fit the Amiga 4000?
All the best, Hilary.
Hillary, your supply voltages sound very healthy. Can you be more
specific as to the nature of the errors? Are they on the floppies or the
HD? From the copy program? I take it this is using some installation
routine? I'm not familiar with the Toaster software.
DJ
Trying to be more specific.
The software for the Toaster comes on 45 floppy disks. The first disk starts
the installation program. 98% of the disks contain archived file material.
After one has loaded around about 7 of the disks, the program proceeds to
un-archive them to hard disk. Thus the program loads in a "batch" process.
As mentioned, the failure is random and has no repeat pattern. It can crash
during the period one is feeding floppies, or can do the same during the
un-archiving process. Signs are…. the monitor screen goes dark grey and both
floppy drive and hard drive cease to function. After a while you get the red
GURU message, but then one has to start over – with disk #1. Frustrating in
the extreme.
Two years ago I had a similar – but not so dramatic and severe – with our Amiga
2000. After my hair turned white, I bought and installed a 300 wat power
supply… and never looked back… until I met the Amiga 4000. Hence I do have
some bias to that solution.
Thanks very much for your interest. Regards, Hilary.
Hilary, would it be possible to actually monitor the power supply voltages
during the installation procedure? It could be that at some point you
have lots of hard disk and floppy activity that is causing the voltages to
drop, as opposed to having no drive activity. It would mean operating
with a half naked Ami, so you have to be careful, which of course you are.
If you have a power supply around, you could try powering the HD from the
external supply and see if that helps. The kind of failure you're
describing sure smells of anaerobic activity …
DJ
Already did what you suggest…. measured voltages before and during hard disk
activity. The 5 volt supply only drops 0.08 volts…. but the 12 volt goes
down 0.2 volts or more. This 12 volt supply is marginal (in my opinion) even
under no load – other than the motherboard. It reads 11.6 volts DC. A good
regulated power supply should have an error of 0.05 percent – or better.
My supplier is sending me another Amiga 4000 power supply unit, and I will try
out. If that fails will try an external good PC Pwr. supply, which usually are
hefty and accurate units.
Commodore must have had a rotten sub-contractor for the power supplies. Had the
same dismal performance with our 2000 – and a replacement unit of 300 watts
capacity cleared the problem.
Keep your fingers crossed…. and pray a little!
All the best, Hilary.
Hilary, a drop of .2 volts is really not uncommon under big loads. The
stuff the power supply is driving is usually spec'ed at +-10%, so you got
plenty of headroom. Of course you could have bad filtering which a
voltmeter won't tell you, but as long as the voltage is fairly constant
you should be OK. But let's check out the new one. Hope it solves your
problem.
I've got a couple of candles lit up …
DJ
Thanks for your comments.
If indeed it is NOT the power supply, can you – or anyone – suggest other
sources of the trouble. The 4000/040 is new. It performs all the Workbench
tasks without any triuble at all. I used a GVP test program to go thru' all
the RAM. It passed OK.
All the best, Hilary
Run DiskSpeed. Multiple times.
Run MBRTest-2 with all tests enabled. Overnight (bump iterations to
endless).
Dale L. Larson Intangible Assets Manufacturing (info@iam.com)
"That's the best part about being crazy. You see things no one else can see."
Thanks for your suggestions Dale.
I am new to the Amiga 4000/040 and Workbench Ver:3.0…. Therefore would ask
you how to proceed "novice style". Where do I find these mysterious
"DISKSPEED" and the other one… "MBRTest-2".
Hope that the magic in these (new to me) files may do the trick… but I need
gentle coaching!
All the best, Hilary.
Both can be found in the AmigaUser forum libraries. Well, maybe MBRTest-2
is in AmigaVendor/Microbotics.
These files are just tests, they won't fix anything.
Dale L. Larson Intangible Assets Manufacturing (info@iam.com)
"That's the best part about being crazy. You see things no one else can see."
Hilary,
I'd suggest checking your SIMMS. I've seen some that didn't fit the
sockets securely. Make sure the metal latches are on properly. There's
also a problem with some 4000 power supply fans. They were installed
backwards. Make sure the the air is being pulled out of the system. The
recomended test is to hold a piece of tissue at the exaust vents at the
rear of the system. Air should be comming out rather than going in.
Jim
MOS via Autopilot & Amiga
Hello Hillary,
I don't know if this will help but I had a problem before with
the Toaster / TBC III combo. When trying to install the software
the system would fail when it reached any point when it looked
for the card (I believe around 30 or so it did this check, but
its been a while). The problem here was that the TBC card was
connected to the internal communications connector on the
motherboard. When the toaster started up it had a real problem
with this. When I switched to the external connector it was happy.
The toaster is very sensitive to your configuration so I will
tell to do the things that I always tell my customers. Start
with the basics and then add things in until the machine fails.
At that point hopefully you have found the culpret.
If you have 4000 with extra goodies in it first remove those items
and them with only the Toaster installed try to reinstall your
software. Make certain you disable all small utilities that you
might be running at startup.
Please also check the unreasonable like make certain that the
toaster card is configured correctly. IE that its daughterboard
is seated in the 4000 position and that all your jumpers on
the toasters main board are set to 4000 (Sorry can't remember if
that's down or up. It does say though in the manual and on the
board).
I have a 4000 with a 2x CD-ROM, 510MB Quantum, 120MB IDE, a
WARP Engine 040/40 with 20MB or RAM on it with a stock Power
Supply so I would say that while its possible that may be your
power, it is more likely something else (but CBM did make junky
power supplys :), I think they are made in French Polynesia or
the Belgium Congo (just kidding)).
If you have a stock 4000 also try the above with no other
programs loaded. I do not know if you are using the stock 120MB
harddrive or not but if you are using an older drive in addition
to the Amigas stock 120MB, like an older Seagate then that may
be your problem as well (ie: SCSI Termination or the increased
power demands from an older drive).
Sorry for meandering, hope my babbling helps…..
Shawn
Silent Paw Productions
If you have two A4000 power supplies laying around, the perfect thing to
do would be to mail one off to Micro R&D — their replacement power supply
just swaps the guts of the stock power supply for a hefty 300 watt
version.
Dale L. Larson Intangible Assets Manufacturing (info@iam.com)
"That's the best part about being crazy. You see things no one else can see."
Hilary,
Call Micro R&D as they advert PSs for the A4000 too. If you still have
your A2K in the studio you might try loading the HD in the A2000 then
physically moving it to the A4000. You wouldn't have the last few disks
(the AGA dependent ones) but you would have enough to get through the week
assuming the PS doesn't die during transitions.
'Course this assumes that you have an A2000 with IDE or 4000 with SCSI.
BTW, what did you do with the Y/C Plus?
wmc – via Autopilot!
I think it is far more likely that you have a corrputed floppy disk. Try
installing the software on another 4000 (I know, it's _very_ tedious) to
make sure. It could also be a heat-sensitive chip flaw in your 4000; That
would cause consistent failure at somewhat varying intervals. If this is
the case, I hope it is a replacable chip or SIMM (RAM) module. Have you
tried running the 4000 for 15 minutes and then run a memory tester? There
are one or two to choose from in the Fred Fish library.
-Chris
Hilary,
I had a simular problem as you. I install a second HardDrive and
attempted to install my Toaster Software to that drive, but I would get to
about the 8th or 9th disk and the install program would quit saying it
couldn't unpack a file.
I fought this for quite a while. I then atempted to get more memory to
see if that was causing my Problem, but it didn't. So on a whim I tried
installing the software to my main drive and boom it install perfectly. I
don't know if this will help you out but it might.
<- James Scott ->
Automated with AutoPilot!!!! Version 1.73
Thanks for the news of your success James – with the Toaster software.
I only have one (SCSI) hard disk installed – a 345 Meg Maxtor. At the moment
have found another drive… but only 120 Megs, but am going to try that one to
see if it will do the job – but with very limited capacity. The only
"mechanical" devices I have at thre moment, is the DF0 floppy… and the hard
drive. Maybe some hard drives take more power than others…. as perhaps in
your case.
Have heard many tales of woe about the 4000 power supply. The fallout is that
it is both "tacky" and certainly under powered. It is supposed to be regulated
at both 12 and 5 volts, but certainly from the measurements I have taken with
an accurate VOM meter… that is just not so in the Amiga 4000 supply.
All the best….. Hilary